Post by bestialwarlust on Jul 14, 2013 23:42:59 GMT -6
****edited with some updates. I will make updates to the first post to make this easier to follow if the discussion has enough interest and keeps going********
So with focus of many d20 players and people from skill based systems complaining that DD (OD&D, 1ed, etc..) have no skills I've come up with this little thing on skills. It's a rough draft. And for the most part I play the game with very little to no skill rolls. I prefer my players to interact with the game world and not the rules I thought this handout would come in useful for others. I'll need to fix it and of course any suggestions here from the forum members is always welcome.
Skills
This document will cover skills in the Delving Deeper game. However it can easily apply to an early version of D&D.
Where are my skills?
Skills do exist in Delving Deeper and earlier versions of the earlier mentioned RPG. However in earlier
editions of class RPG's there was never a good explanation of class functions as character building was not the primary focus. Instead adventure was the primary focus this lead to the misconception of no skills. Here will attempt to correct this to a degree as well as expand on the existing rule set where needed. This is just my interpretation and we will be using DD version 2 for this.
All adventurers are competent
Player Characters (PCs) - as opposed to most Normal Men - are adventurers. While they might be mere upstart adventurers at level 1, they are still assumed to know the basics of adventuring and exploration. It is assumed that all characters know how to tie knots, how to climb, how to swim (swimming can explicitly be found in Vol II Ref guide page 24), how to row in a small boat, how to build a basic fire (usually requiring a tinderbox), basic hunting, how to ride a horse and so on. So this gives us a basis for what many game systems will call common or everyman skills. So looking at this list above and going through the rule books for Delving Deeper we will compile a list of everyman skills:
Riding Climbing
Swim Survival (this will cover hunting, firebuilding, basic boating, etc.. basic wilderness skills
Heal (this is optional assuming you use any type of wound binding in your game)
Now that we have the above assumed skills all adventuring classes would have but what about the others such as hiding, searching, spot etc.. for these we use what already in the rules.
Search 5+ on a d6 (Secret Doors vol II DD (page 12) referee's guide can be easily expanded to a search for anything hidden or concealed. In addition I expand the thief skill of find traps as their roll I justify this as they have a trained eye to notice things better.
Stealth and Perception 5+ on a d6 (Surprise vol II DD (page 12) referee's guide can be used for any hiding or sneaking ( excluding thieves who have their own skill for this. While the same roll is used to “spot” someone trying to hide. We also have a “bluff” (Reaction table vol II DD (page 13) referee's guide skill and “Sense motive” skill, again just a reuse of the notice secret doors.
So now our skill list becomes:
Riding Climbing
Swim Survival
Heal* Search
Stealth Perception
Bluff Sense motive
*optional
That's 10 skills so far not bad for a system with no skills. Now we move onto classes.
Each class is also assumed to be competent in what they do.
Fighter – Basic armor and weapon repair and maintenance. So Craft – armorsmith, Craft Weaponsmith
Magic User – Knowledge – Spellcraft or Arcana whatever you want to call it
Cleric – Knowledge Religion
Thief – Appraise (it's good to know the value of what's in a room to get the best item).
Example:
So if we had a fighter and the player likes to see skills on his sheet he could write
Riding Climbing
Swim Survival
Heal Search
Stealth Perception
Craft-- weaponsmith
Craft –armorsmith
Now there are 10 skills on the character sheet.
How to use skills
Your preference maybe different but skills should never substitute for playing the game. Roll only if there is a chance for failure or complication or if you as a GM want to assign odds and take any sort of bias out of the decision. If the character wants to climb a tree he does, or wants to gather firewood again he does, or even hunt for some food in an abundant area let him as long as it's reasonable or time and resources are around let him succeed. Roll only if there's a rush or stress. Our above character is being pursued by goblins and wargs and needs to get up a tree. Assign a number on the d6 for most skills a 4+ is a good number. And don't make it pass or fail instead make it interesting. So if our fleeing character rolls a 1 instead of saying you fail do something like “You attempt to scramble up the tree however, you stumble a bit and get your cloak snagged slowing you down. The goblin closes in and takes a swing ( GM Rolls dice) the attack misses and you barely make it up the tree.
If you want to find what's in a room don't just roll a die and say “what did I find?”. Give the GM a general Idea of what you're looking at and how (touching with hands or object, just looking, etc..) And for the GM don't be a jerk when a player doesn't give the small minutia “Oh you said you looked at the chest but you didn't specifically say you were looking at the left side where the runes of fiery death were!”
So I don't have it I can't do it?
No that should never be the case. If you supply a small list of skills for players (and using a condensed list is preferable, a skill for everything and everything has a skill does not make game player better unless you revel in bookkeeping. Don't fall into the skill spiral and try and list everything under the sun) don't let the small list of skills stifle player imagination. Take for example the “appraisal” skill assigned to the thief. Allow anyone to appraise the value of a gem found in a treasure horde. Say the gem is a 500gp ruby a thief looks and thinks he can get around 500 gp. BUt say a fighter finds the same maybe he's off by (GM picks up a d6 assigns each number a 10% value and rolls a 3 so 30% off) he tells the fighter you think you can get 350 gp for it.
But I want to customize and be better at somethings
Here is where it will depend on the GM and his game. You could utilize a background. No that doesn't mean you the player have to write a 500 page essay (though some players like to do that). Keep it simple I rolled a fighter but he was raised by jewelers. Ok so you can appraise value of items as well as a thief. Or I was raised the child of the town council member. So you can write down something like Knowledge – politics if you want.
So with focus of many d20 players and people from skill based systems complaining that DD (OD&D, 1ed, etc..) have no skills I've come up with this little thing on skills. It's a rough draft. And for the most part I play the game with very little to no skill rolls. I prefer my players to interact with the game world and not the rules I thought this handout would come in useful for others. I'll need to fix it and of course any suggestions here from the forum members is always welcome.
Skills
This document will cover skills in the Delving Deeper game. However it can easily apply to an early version of D&D.
Where are my skills?
Skills do exist in Delving Deeper and earlier versions of the earlier mentioned RPG. However in earlier
editions of class RPG's there was never a good explanation of class functions as character building was not the primary focus. Instead adventure was the primary focus this lead to the misconception of no skills. Here will attempt to correct this to a degree as well as expand on the existing rule set where needed. This is just my interpretation and we will be using DD version 2 for this.
All adventurers are competent
Player Characters (PCs) - as opposed to most Normal Men - are adventurers. While they might be mere upstart adventurers at level 1, they are still assumed to know the basics of adventuring and exploration. It is assumed that all characters know how to tie knots, how to climb, how to swim (swimming can explicitly be found in Vol II Ref guide page 24), how to row in a small boat, how to build a basic fire (usually requiring a tinderbox), basic hunting, how to ride a horse and so on. So this gives us a basis for what many game systems will call common or everyman skills. So looking at this list above and going through the rule books for Delving Deeper we will compile a list of everyman skills:
Riding Climbing
Swim Survival (this will cover hunting, firebuilding, basic boating, etc.. basic wilderness skills
Heal (this is optional assuming you use any type of wound binding in your game)
Now that we have the above assumed skills all adventuring classes would have but what about the others such as hiding, searching, spot etc.. for these we use what already in the rules.
Search 5+ on a d6 (Secret Doors vol II DD (page 12) referee's guide can be easily expanded to a search for anything hidden or concealed. In addition I expand the thief skill of find traps as their roll I justify this as they have a trained eye to notice things better.
Stealth and Perception 5+ on a d6 (Surprise vol II DD (page 12) referee's guide can be used for any hiding or sneaking ( excluding thieves who have their own skill for this. While the same roll is used to “spot” someone trying to hide. We also have a “bluff” (Reaction table vol II DD (page 13) referee's guide skill and “Sense motive” skill, again just a reuse of the notice secret doors.
So now our skill list becomes:
Riding Climbing
Swim Survival
Heal* Search
Stealth Perception
Bluff Sense motive
*optional
That's 10 skills so far not bad for a system with no skills. Now we move onto classes.
Each class is also assumed to be competent in what they do.
Fighter – Basic armor and weapon repair and maintenance. So Craft – armorsmith, Craft Weaponsmith
Magic User – Knowledge – Spellcraft or Arcana whatever you want to call it
Cleric – Knowledge Religion
Thief – Appraise (it's good to know the value of what's in a room to get the best item).
Example:
So if we had a fighter and the player likes to see skills on his sheet he could write
Riding Climbing
Swim Survival
Heal Search
Stealth Perception
Craft-- weaponsmith
Craft –armorsmith
Now there are 10 skills on the character sheet.
How to use skills
Your preference maybe different but skills should never substitute for playing the game. Roll only if there is a chance for failure or complication or if you as a GM want to assign odds and take any sort of bias out of the decision. If the character wants to climb a tree he does, or wants to gather firewood again he does, or even hunt for some food in an abundant area let him as long as it's reasonable or time and resources are around let him succeed. Roll only if there's a rush or stress. Our above character is being pursued by goblins and wargs and needs to get up a tree. Assign a number on the d6 for most skills a 4+ is a good number. And don't make it pass or fail instead make it interesting. So if our fleeing character rolls a 1 instead of saying you fail do something like “You attempt to scramble up the tree however, you stumble a bit and get your cloak snagged slowing you down. The goblin closes in and takes a swing ( GM Rolls dice) the attack misses and you barely make it up the tree.
If you want to find what's in a room don't just roll a die and say “what did I find?”. Give the GM a general Idea of what you're looking at and how (touching with hands or object, just looking, etc..) And for the GM don't be a jerk when a player doesn't give the small minutia “Oh you said you looked at the chest but you didn't specifically say you were looking at the left side where the runes of fiery death were!”
So I don't have it I can't do it?
No that should never be the case. If you supply a small list of skills for players (and using a condensed list is preferable, a skill for everything and everything has a skill does not make game player better unless you revel in bookkeeping. Don't fall into the skill spiral and try and list everything under the sun) don't let the small list of skills stifle player imagination. Take for example the “appraisal” skill assigned to the thief. Allow anyone to appraise the value of a gem found in a treasure horde. Say the gem is a 500gp ruby a thief looks and thinks he can get around 500 gp. BUt say a fighter finds the same maybe he's off by (GM picks up a d6 assigns each number a 10% value and rolls a 3 so 30% off) he tells the fighter you think you can get 350 gp for it.
But I want to customize and be better at somethings
Here is where it will depend on the GM and his game. You could utilize a background. No that doesn't mean you the player have to write a 500 page essay (though some players like to do that). Keep it simple I rolled a fighter but he was raised by jewelers. Ok so you can appraise value of items as well as a thief. Or I was raised the child of the town council member. So you can write down something like Knowledge – politics if you want.