learning spells.

[mightycthulhu]

I have some questions about character access to magic spells.

1) how many soells are in the character's starting spell book?

2) if a cleric does not get his spell book unit lv2, then where does it come from?

3) do clerics and mages automatically learn new spells when they gain levels, or must all spells be found and copied into their spell books?

[Deleted]

As our inspirational material was somewhat vague WRT to spells and spellbooks, so were we. FWIW here is how I (a co-author of DD) handle it:

1) All of 'em. That is, all first level spells.
2) From whatever church with which he is affiliated.
3) The rules imply both classes acquire all new spells upon level gain, though the source of these spell books is vague.

Regarding item #3, I've house-ruled that clerics don't require spell books and divinely acquire knowledge of any spell in the rulebooks upon gaining a level. Individual spells must still be sought out or acquired from scrolls, etc.

Magi OTOH get a book of first and second level spells from a rather informal and loosely organized Guild of Magi (more of a club than an organization). After that, spells must be acquired through acquisition by whatever means ... my reasoning being that the more power a magic-user acquires the more protective he is of that power.

HTH.

[mightycthulhu]

just noticed this. in the codex, pg 3 says scrolls cost $100 gp/level to create, but pg 33 says it is $250/lvl.
i assume $100 is correct and that the cost of potions should be double that of scrolls ($200 not $500)

[Deleted]

For that? I'll have to let the project editor, Ways of the Earth, answer that one.

[waysoftheearth]

Dec 2, 2012 21:54:44 GMT -6 mightycthulhu said:

just noticed this. in the codex, pg 3 says scrolls cost $100 gp/level to create, but pg 33 says it is $250/lvl.
i assume $100 is correct and that the cost of potions should be double that of scrolls ($200 not $500)

I'm not sure exactly what you're looking at Mightycthulhu...


Looking at the DD Reference Rules Volume 1, we see that:

p22 says (under Spell Scrolls): "Magic-users and clerics can also copy spells which they can memorize onto scrolls, requiring one week to create any scroll at a cost of 100 gp per spell level; a 4th level spell scroll taking a week to construct and costing 400 gp."

p37 also says (in the table of costs under the Enchanting Magic Items heading) that it costs 100 gp per spell level to construct a spell scroll.

Are these the passages you are referring to?

[mightycthulhu]

codex of the divine and arcane pdf from the Brave Halfling Box Set Edition of Delving Deeper.

so it looks like a typo in the table on pg 33 of the codex in the boxed set.

[mightycthulhu]

...and just to add to the confusion:
my copy of volume I (First print August 2012.) says they cost $150 on both pg 22 and 37!

[waysoftheearth]

Dec 2, 2012 22:49:15 GMT -6 mightycthulhu said:

...and just to add to the confusion:
my copy of volume I (First print August 2012.) says they cost $150 on both pg 22 and 37!

The August PDFs were a pre-press preview which were sent out to BHP's pre-order customers only. The preview PDFs contained many minor (and some not so minor) errors. In fact, the main reason for issuing the preview PDFs was exactly so that the community could help us identify these problems.

As far as I'm aware, pretty much all the issues that were identified in the preview PDFs were subsequently addressed in the first actual public release of the DD Reference Rules, which say "Version 1 October 2012" on the title page of each of the three volumes.


BHP's five volume boxed-set edition is (in theory) printed from version 1 of the Reference Rules, so (again in theory) it shouldn't differ from the Reference Rules version 1.

If the text of BHP's hard copy boxed set booklets differs from version 1 of the Ref Rules, it is probably either by mistake or else something John wanted to change (I suspect the former is more likely). That's something you'd have to ask John.

[mightycthulhu]

thanks for clearing that up. I really appreciate your assistance and patience.
I just downloaded the latest reference rules form RPGnow!

I can't wait to start running my game this Saturday!

[waysoftheearth]

Good luck with your game ;D

[machpants]

Sorry for the quasi-necro but for my interest, not having anything older than BECMI (until November anyway!), where did the Cleric spellbooks come from?

[waysoftheearth]

Mar 6, 2013 16:11:33 GMT -6 machpants said:

Sorry for the quasi-necro but for my interest, not having anything older than BECMI (until November anyway!), where did the Cleric spellbooks come from?

Hi Machpants, and welcome to Delving Deeper

In the 3LBBs, the section on spell books (Men & Magic page 34, from memory) says that "spell casters" (not just "magic-users") have spell books.

I think (again, from memory) that the section on researching new spells implies that the "spell caster" writes the new spell in his spell book.

Overall, the 3LBBs are famously brief on the subject and somewhat ambiguous, but it is what it is

[machpants]

Thanks, obviously this is the first time I have seen that in any DnD or DnD-a-like. And why not, your holy tomb of spells sounds good to me. I got one of the last boxed sets which John is sending to me with my Appendix N stuff, so looking forward to that! I love my iPad but PDFs aren't the same... especially compared to something that comes in a box!

[waysoftheearth]

Of course the key clue to clerical spell books is in the definition of the Cleric class itself, which says:

Clerics: Clerics gain some of the advantages from both of the other two classes (Fighting-Men and Magic-Users)...

Nothing further is stated about clerical spell casting, and so all we have is that clerics have the advantage of casting magic spells in common with magic-users. So aside from their unique spell list, clerical spell casting is exactly like that of magic users, strongly implying the use of spell books.

The rule that clerics could function sans spell books must have appeared later. If anyone knows when that rule first appeared explicitly in print that would be interesting to know...

[Zenopus]

FWIW,

Greyhawk: "All cleric spells are considered as "divinely" given" (pg 9). But this could still require study in a spell book as part of the spells being memorized & divinely given; i.e., could just mean the cleric channels divine power at the time of casting.

Holmes: "Since clerical spells are divinely given, they do not have to be studied to master them" (pg 17). This seems to be the next step in interpreting away spell books for clerics. The spells are listed as "Book of First Level Spells", etc, however.

IIRC, there's a clerical spell book in Morkendaine Dungeon, a Paul Jaquays OD&D adventure published in Dungeoneer in 1979. That's evidence that at least some players were using clerical spell books back in the 70s.