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Post by bestialwarlust on Oct 7, 2012 21:39:12 GMT -6
on page 10
"Against enemies with no more than 1+1 hit dice, a fighter can attack once per round for each of his own hit dice."
Is that correct or is as in the original where he can attack a number of enemies in a round equal to the fighers HD?
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Post by talysman on Oct 7, 2012 22:19:11 GMT -6
I was just discussing this on my blog the other day. I think it's intentional, but I'll be going with something closer to the original.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Oct 7, 2012 23:39:13 GMT -6
Yes, that is correct and intentional. The cut off for multiple attacks in the original is often thought to be 1 HD. However (going from memory here) it actually states "man-types" or "normals" or some such, leaving it open to interpretation exactly how many HD these should have. If you then consult the entries given for random encounters with man-types in U&WA, you find 2 HD cavemen and a bunch of 1+1 HD types (including elves and hobgoblins) all listed. Berserkers (and other 1+1 HD types) are given as Men in M&T, and these must be man-types also. There have been a number of discussions on these boards recently on exactly this subject, all of which tangentially contributed to DD's DNA. Hope this helps  |
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Post by talysman on Oct 8, 2012 1:56:47 GMT -6
I think bestialwarlust's concern was the same as mine, though: the switch from attacking multiple opponents to making multiple attacks.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Oct 8, 2012 4:52:24 GMT -6
Sorry, I didn't read the OP closely enough.
I thought the question was about why 1+1 HD targets were subject to multiple attacks rather than just 1 HD creatures.
Honesty, the distinction between attacking multiple targets and making multiple attacks had not occurred to me, and nor do I recall it being raised in any of the numerous discussions/debates we had during DD's development.
As far as I'm aware, M&T explains that a 6 HD Troll would attack six times, and the FAQ explains that an 8 HD super hero would attack eight times.
For better or worse, that's what I assumed during the DD editing process.
Everybody is encouraged to house rule DD and make it their own game though, so if you like it the other way around, make it so!
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Post by Sean Michael Kelly on Oct 8, 2012 5:46:05 GMT -6
Yes, from a Chainmail perspective, each HD would be another "attack" at least in an abstract way. (it is another die to hit) However,I haven't thought out the ramifications of applying that to Delving Deeper yet. I think it would be interesting to "rough out" a simple "Use of Chainmail Mass Combat Rules in Delving Deeper" supplement.
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Post by bestialwarlust on Oct 8, 2012 6:03:11 GMT -6
I can see the ability to attack multiple opponents in the 1 minute abstract combat round making sense. But multiple attacks against one opponent are already assumed. The one roll just representing if at least one of the many strikes made it through.
Again not a major issue as it can be house ruled if need be. I just wasn't sure if that was intentional or was I was just reading it incorrectly. I love DD it's a fantastic way to introduce people to OD&D.
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Post by Sean Michael Kelly on Oct 8, 2012 6:15:31 GMT -6
I can see the ability to attack multiple opponents in the 1 minute abstract combat round making sense. But multiple attacks against one opponent are already assumed. The one roll just representing if at least one of the many strikes made it through. Precisely, this is what the "Combat Tables" have attempted to emulate with increasing ability "to hit" with increasing HD vs. AC's. In Chainmail, higher HD, simply meant you had more chances to roll a 5 or 6 respectively vs another troop type. A hero fought with the abilities of 4 men, not necessarily able to swing a sword 4 times. It's all abstract, and could be described/role-played however you'd like! Personally, I still enjoy rolling multiple dice! |
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Post by Ynas Midgard on Oct 9, 2012 0:43:57 GMT -6
The reason I would go with "multiple attacks" is that it makes the Fighter not only more capable of handling a number of foes but also just the one. Imagine, if one has the ability to fight simultaneously with 4 opponents, how much time does it take for him to take down only one of them in a face to face fight? In my reading, that's what the multiple attacks represent - the Fighter's greatly improved combat abilities, which he can either divide between his opponents or focus on a single one of them.
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Post by Sean Michael Kelly on Oct 9, 2012 5:49:14 GMT -6
Ynas, yes, this is/was an advantage to Chainmail multiple attacks.
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idrahil
Level 6 Magician
The Lighter The Rules, The Better The Game!
Posts: 398
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Post by idrahil on Oct 16, 2012 7:57:04 GMT -6
Hello,
Ok so if I read the rules and this post correctly: a level 1+ Fighter (Dwarf, Halfling), Level 2+ Cleric and Level 3+ Thief and Magic-User will never suffer this multiple attack from high HD enemies?
What would be the thoughts of putting this in for Double HD? For instance, a Level 8 Fighter fights a Medusa (4HD), He can roll twice "to hit"? Or, would that cause too many problems if and when a party fights stuff with 20ish HD?
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Post by waysoftheearth on Oct 16, 2012 15:09:45 GMT -6
What would be the thoughts That house ruling is a sign of a healthy game and a very good thing. Go for it |
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