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Post by waysoftheearth on Sept 22, 2012 18:01:05 GMT -6
Hi All, There is a lot happening in the Delving Deeper space, and it hasn't always been exactly clear what DD products there are, or who is doing what. I've created a (n unofficial) product road map to try to help illustrate all this. It's "unofficial" because, like everything, it's subject to change as the individual publishers manage their individual priorities. However, it is still a reasonable guide... Click on the image to download the full sized picture. Hope this helps
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Post by Sean Michael Kelly on Sept 22, 2012 18:05:52 GMT -6
Simon, this is uberly geeky. I love it, and I haven't even been able to read it yet. ;D
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Post by mgtremaine on Sept 22, 2012 19:28:06 GMT -6
Oh shinny... click, click, click.....
-Mike
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Post by waysoftheearth on Sept 22, 2012 20:07:24 GMT -6
I'm always willing to share the uber geekiness around
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Post by Mike on Sept 23, 2012 6:48:38 GMT -6
Very reassuring that DD has some staying power!
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Post by ravenheart87 on Sept 23, 2012 7:26:31 GMT -6
How about an UML diagram for combat and character creation and...
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Post by Finarvyn on Sept 23, 2012 7:41:04 GMT -6
Very cool flowchart!
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eldrad
Level 3 Conjurer
Posts: 77
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Post by eldrad on Sept 26, 2012 15:56:10 GMT -6
SO the free PDF is coming when? I want to take a look at it all before I get the box or the book.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Sept 26, 2012 16:59:43 GMT -6
SO the free PDF is coming when? I want to take a look at it all before I get the box or the book. There has been an agreement all along (during the development of DD), that the free PDF would not be made generally available until after the the pre-order folks had their boxed set. However, John has recently decided to add illustrations back into the box-set version, so the pre-order folks will be getting something that is not included in the free unillustrated "reference rules" PDFs. As a result of that, John has given his blessing for me to release the free unillustrated "reference rules" PDFs at my leisure. Based on feedback from the fans I've decided to redo the layout of vol 3 with everything sorted alphabetically. That is no small task -- requiring me to redo all the monster and magic-items tables, and re-organise the text almost entirely. Once that is done the reference rules PDFs will be available to everyone, for free.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2012 18:02:04 GMT -6
Glad to hear about the organization to volume 3.
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Post by Mike on Sept 26, 2012 20:41:22 GMT -6
Waysoftheeath, I name thee Legend!
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Post by ravenheart87 on Sept 27, 2012 0:30:22 GMT -6
Waysoftheearth, is it okay if we share those pdf version we got until you're finished with the reordering?
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Post by waysoftheearth on Sept 27, 2012 4:07:31 GMT -6
They are your PDFs. You can do what you like with them... but it's worthwhile remembering that were quite a few fixes have gone in since the preview PDF was released
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Post by ravenheart87 on Sept 27, 2012 4:12:28 GMT -6
Yeah, I know that. Thanks!
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Post by funkaoshi on Mar 28, 2013 20:39:12 GMT -6
Do you guys have any plans to release the rules in some editable format—Word Doc, RTF, Plaintext, etc.—so that people can make house rule documents the way people do using the S&W WhiteBox rules. It would be good.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Mar 29, 2013 0:19:37 GMT -6
Do you guys have any plans to release the rules in some editable format—Word Doc, RTF, Plaintext, etc.—so that people can make house rule documents the way people do using the S&W WhiteBox rules. It would be good. Hi Funkaoshi, I have been thinking about this recently too. I will be making a plain text version of the Reference Rules available in the relatively near future (I've already formatted all the vol 1 tables as text, vol 2 & vol 3 still to do). I don't plan on doing a Word version at this stage, mainly because I'm already snowed under with stuff to do. I might looking into it for later, or get someone else to help out with it.
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Post by funkaoshi on Mar 29, 2013 8:04:21 GMT -6
Plain text is the best text. Thanks. You also might want to look into styling things lightly with Markdown. It's easy to convert them to HTML then. (For example, here are Philotomy's Musings in plain text and as html. If you need a hand let me know.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Mar 30, 2013 3:47:27 GMT -6
Plain text is the best text. Thanks. You also might want to look into styling things lightly with Markdown. It's easy to convert them to HTML then. ... If you need a hand let me know. The text files are already in markdown format, specifically because I want to generate a hyperlinked online version of the DD Ref Rules. The main challenge lies in the many tables. Markdown does not have very good table support, so I've had to specify a richer table syntax which will handle DD's tables. Unfortunately nobody over at the markdown discussion group is particularly interested in it, so I've had to take it on myself. It's a non-trivial job; e.g., it needs to handle many tables like this one: ======================================================================== __________________________Fighter Progression ======================================================================== ________ Experience____________S a v i n g__ T h r o w__ V e r s u s Fighter____Points____Hit____________Wands____Paralysis____Breath _Level____Required__ Dice__ Poison__ Rays__Petrification__Weapon__Spells ------------------------------------------------------------------------ __ 1____________ 0__ 1+2______12______13________ 14________ 15______16 __ 2________ 2,000__ 2+1______12______13________ 14________ 15______16 __ 3________ 4,000____3______ 10______11________ 12________ 15______14 __ 4________ 8,000____4______ 10______11________ 12________ 12______14 __ 5________16,000____5______ 10______11________ 12________ 12______14 __ 6________32,000____6________8______ 9________ 10________ 12______12 __ 7________65,000____7________8______ 9________ 10________ 12______12 __ 8______ 130,000__ 8+1______ 8______ 9________ 10__________9______12 __ 9______ 250,000__ 9+2______ 6______ 7__________8__________9______10 __10______ 370,000__ 10________6______ 7__________8__________9______10 __11______ 490,000__10+2______ 6______ 7__________8__________9______10 __12______ 600,000__ 11________4______ 5__________6__________6______ 8 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A fighter adds one hit die per 2 levels beyond the 9th.
And the other challenge is hyperlinking the text. If you do want to help out on the markdown side Funkaoshi, please PM me
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Post by funkaoshi on Mar 30, 2013 14:20:30 GMT -6
Cool i'll try and help. I sent you a PM.
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Post by alcyone on May 25, 2013 0:05:57 GMT -6
The text files are already in markdown format, specifically because I want to generate a hyperlinked online version of the DD Ref Rules. How's this going? Not trying to nag, just have had use for such a thing lately running a PbP from multiple locations.
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Post by waysoftheearth on May 25, 2013 1:00:48 GMT -6
How's this going? Not trying to nag, just have had use for such a thing lately running a PbP from multiple locations. I haven't been able to find satisfactory table support in any existing markdown implementation. I spent some effort trying to implement better table support myself, but it's a non-trivial effort, and it's fallen a long way down the todo list. It's still something I want to do eventually, but I won't look at it seriously again until after the hardback edition is done. Unless someone else wants to tackle the markdown table stuff for me
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Post by mgtremaine on May 25, 2013 7:56:00 GMT -6
What Markdown implantation were you playing with? [IE perl, python, php etc...] Throw me an link and I'll take a peek at it.
-Mike
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 6, 2013 19:08:51 GMT -6
A bit of an update on what I'm working on guys...
1) Short DD adventure contest (entries accepted for the next 23 days), 2) Converting three of my own short adventures for DD, 3) Converting the DD text and tables into a plain text (markdown) version, 4) Making the plain text (markdown) version available for download, 5) Transforming the plain text (markdown) version into a hyperlinked document, 6) Publishing the hyperlinked version online, 7) Collecting art for the hardback edition, 8) Arranging the text, art and redoing all the tables for the hardback edition.
Lately I've been focusing on 3. I've done all of the text and all the tables from vol 1, so just the tables from vols 2 and 3 left to do.
Regarding 5, I'm getting help from Aher (former member of these boards) in translating the plain text tables into HTML with a Perl script and that is looking very promising so far.
Meanwhile, I'm eagerly awaiting a consignment of Holloway art for the hardback edition, including the front cover.
July will be DD adventure month for me; I anticipate putting together the contest entries plus the three adventures of my own devising and making them all available to the DD community.
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Post by talysman on Jun 6, 2013 19:25:42 GMT -6
Have you tried the Pandoc Markdown tables? The one thing in your example it can't do is footnotes inside a table: it will do footnotes, and it will do tables, but I don't think it knows to include footnotes as part of a table. However, you can do a table without footnotes in Pandoc Markdown, convert to LaTeX, and add the footnote there.
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Post by talysman on Jun 6, 2013 19:28:34 GMT -6
Actually, come to think of it, Pandoc's Markdown doesn't support the merged header above the five saving throw columns, either. But everything else is doable.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 6, 2013 21:25:37 GMT -6
I've done a lot of searching and scratching around markdown table support over the last couple of years and concluded that non-trivial table support is a genuine deficiency in the existing markdown impls. Some support some table features, true. But there is no single impl that is rich enough for the (reasonably simple) tables that appear in DD, let alone genuinely complex tables.
Features required for DD tables but missing from some/most impls include: . Captions, . Footnotes, . Multiple tbodies, . Multiple theads, . Multi-line col headers, . Colspan headers, . Colgroups, . Absence of parser hints in the source text.
Not to worry; Aher's custom parser looks to be the goods -- he's a genius!
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Post by strangebrew on Jun 7, 2013 22:35:42 GMT -6
Any idea of how the hardback book will be formatted? I'm a big fan of the formatting of the free pdf rules, with its OD&Desque fonts and superb crispness, and I really hope you stick to this style when you move on to the hardbacks. I also received the five pdfs of the box set, with the art and different layout, but found the original font and formatting to be much more elegant and useful.
Basically I would hope that you would keep the formatting similar in style, with any art being full page pieces (akin to much of the LBB art) as not to break up the current flow. A single digest-sized format hardback would be nice, too!
I'm really not too worried, since I feel it's in good hands, but I figured I'd ask.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 9, 2013 6:27:20 GMT -6
Thanks for your interest strangebrew There has been a bit of chat about the hardback pre-production over on DD's Google+ group, you can listen in/contribute over there, or just wait for the milestone updates here. Here's a quick summary: . It's shaping up to be a 7in x 9.5in (Crown Quattro sized), section sewn, hardback. . I have several indicative quotes for production and have chosen a printer. . The exact page count is unknown at this stage, but a reasonable guess would be 160 or 176. . The cover art will be a front and back piece by Jim Holloway, and is currently in progress. . I'm playing with the internal layout right now... the front runner is two columns of 9.5pt Futura text yielding 52 ch/line (within the typographic "ideal" of 50-60 ch/line). This seems to be the best balance between legibility and use of space, but I'm still trying various fonts/sizes. . As for the actual content; there will be a bunch of minor corrections, and I'll be bringing the cleric spells/day progression and spell list closer to the original. All changes will be documented as per the previous errata sheet. . I'm still waiting on some new art, and I may need to commission some extra pieces to "fit" the layout when it's done. Hope that helps
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Post by sulldawga on Aug 2, 2013 11:36:03 GMT -6
Can't believe I missed this the first time I looked at it but... can you elaborate a little bit on what the Hinterlands DD Supplement will contain?
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idrahil
Level 6 Magician
The Lighter The Rules, The Better The Game!
Posts: 398
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Post by idrahil on Aug 2, 2013 17:27:49 GMT -6
Can't believe I missed this the first time I looked at it but... can you elaborate a little bit on what the Hinterlands DD Supplement will contain? I looked over WOTE's Hinterlands PbP rules when I first rad the DD Roadmap. If its any indication of what this supplement will contain, it will be an interesting mix of house rules and setting. I am just guessing though and hope WOTE responds here
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