|
Post by jmccann on Aug 25, 2012 0:39:03 GMT -6
Hello,
I have been thinking about non-standard classes whether for PCs or NPCs. I know there are a bunch in SR, The Dragon, White Dwarf as well as fanzines (which are not available to me unfortunately).
Does anyone have an exhaustive listing of classes from the old-school era?
|
|
|
Post by Sean Michael Kelly on Aug 25, 2012 5:20:02 GMT -6
I'd say this thread: soc.li/os2R56K would be a good place to start. Then, someone could "chartify" them all so the differences, abilities, source, etc could be clearly seen. Here's a start of the list from the 3lbb's and the Supplements. This is all pre-coffee, so I'm likely going to finish as soon as I can't go by memory: - Magic User - M&M
- Cleric - M&M
- FIghter - M&M
- Thief - S1
- Paladin - S1
- Monk - S2
- Assassin - S2
- Druid - S3
- Illusionist - SR
- Ranger - SR
- Cavalier - SR?
|
|
|
Post by waysoftheearth on Aug 25, 2012 6:00:24 GMT -6
The Thief predates Supplement 1, it originally appeared in The Great Plains Game Players Newsletter No 9 (1974), in an article entitled: "The Thief!" by EGG.
The Bard also appeared somewhere early on, as did EPT's "Adventurer" class, which was discussed only recently on these boards.
The online index of all articles appearing in The Dragon issues 1 to 250 (http://www.aeolia.net/dragondex/) will list most of the mainstream early classes, I'm sure...
|
|
|
Post by Sean Michael Kelly on Aug 25, 2012 6:11:10 GMT -6
The Thief predates Supplement 1, it originally appeared in The Great Plains Game Players Newsletter No 9 (1974), in an article entitled: "The Thief!" by EGG. I agree and that's also a more preferred one IMHO, but I figured the "official/canon" Thief would be the Greyhawk Supp 1 Also, FWIW, I tend to stick to the core three and let folks call them whatever they want for role-play, usually only a couple small on-the-fly "balance tweaks" to give them the feeling of a separate flavor. Keep it simple! A couple times I allowed a number of the post-3lbb classes and the rule-lawyers were having a field day. IMHO, it distracted from the game, nearly scared off some newer players, and created a hell of a lot more accounting on my part. I realize it doesn't have to be this way, but the folks that play 3e/Pathfinder/etc. etc. just have a hard time keeping things simple and want to spell out and delineate every conceivable option and skill. Soon, you're left with a strategy game of playing one skill over another and the characters themselves become nothing but empty shells. Might as well play Stratego! :-) [/rant]
|
|
|
Post by waysoftheearth on Aug 25, 2012 6:22:14 GMT -6
Here's the list of character classes which appeared in The Dragon issues 1-250:
Character classes (D&D) Accountant* "Character That Really Counts, A" Dean Coldham 48(15 1/2) D&D1 Alchemist "Better Living Through Alchemy" Tom Armstrong 130(34) D&D1 "New D&D Character Class: The Alchemist, A" Jon Pickens 2(28) OD&D "NPCs For Hire: ...And One Who Seeks the Perfect Mix" Roger & Georgia Moore 45(11) D&D1 "Recipe For the Alchemist, A" Len Lakofka 49(56) D&D1 Anarch "Champions of the Divine" James Jacobs 310(47) D&D3 Ancestral Speaker "Faces of Faith" Ari Marmell 311(47) D&D3 Anti-Paladin "Try This For Evil: The Anti-Paladin NPC" Laking & Mesford 39(8) D&D1 Anti-Paladin "Blackguards" James Jacobs 312(20) D&D3 Arcane Disciple "Faces of Faith" Ari Marmell 311(49) D&D3 Archer "Missile Fire and the Archer Subclass" Len Lakofka 45(32) D&D1 Artificer "Countdown to Eberron: Creating the Heroes" Mat Smith 316(88) D&D3 Aspirant "Faces of Faith" Ari Marmell 311(49) D&D3 Astrologer "NPCs For Hire: One Who Predicts..." Roger E. Moore 45(10) D&D1 Avenger "Champions of the Divine" James Jacobs 310(49) D&D3 Bandit "Bandits!" Armstrong & Moore 63(22) D&D1 Barbarian (SEE Barbarian) Bard (SEE Bard) Battlecaster "In a Class By Themselves" Tom Doolan 243(84) D&D2 Battle Dancer "Rhythm Warriors" Joseph R. Ravitts 159(74) D&D1 Beastmaster "King of the Jungle" Ed Greenwood 119(30) D&D1 Benevolent "Faces of Faith" Ari Marmell 311(50) D&D3 Berserker "New D&D Character Subclass: The Berserker" Jon Pickens 3(27) OD&D "Wild Warriors, The" Tom Griffith 133(76) D&D1 Bodyguard "Specialist Fighters" Clifford Horowitz 310(33) D&D3 Bureaucrat "Bureaucrats and Politicians" Lakofka & Nystul 74(8) D&D1 Bounty Hunter "Beware Of Traps In Woods" Tom Armstrong 52(57) D&D1 "He's On Your Trail" Tussey & Strunk 52(58) D&D1 "Not a Very Nice Guy" Scott Bennie 52(56) D&D1 Cavalier (SEE Cavalier) Charlatan "First Impressions Are Deceiving" David A. Bellis 120(28) D&D1 Cleric (SEE Cleric) Combinations: 3rd edition "Class Combos" James Wyatt An5(90) D&D3 Barbarians "Outlanders: Barbaric Class Combinations" MacKay & McVey 292(30) D&D3 "Roles of Rage, The" Rich Redman 310(20) D&D3 Dwarves "Class Combos 2: Dwarves" James Wyatt 278(72) D&D3 Necromancers "Shades of Death" Wade Nudson 298(62) D&D3 Oriental "Class Combos: Oriental Adventures Class Combinations" James Wyatt 289(80) D&D3 Rangers "Roles of the Wild" Rich Redman 310(56) D&D3 Trolls: Savage Claw "Malignant Growth: The Ecology of the Troll" Paul Leach 301(68) D&D3 Urban characters "Urban Heroes" Steven "Stan!" Brown 305(20) D&D3 Commander "Specialist Fighters" Clifford Horowitz 310(33) D&D3 Comparison of "Charting the Classes" Roger E. Moore 69(31) D&D1 Corrupter "Blackguards" James Jacobs 312(24) D&D3 Corsair "Specialist Fighters" Clifford Horowitz 310(34) D&D3 Creating new "In a Class By Themselves" Tom Doolan 243(82) D&D2 Crusader "Faces of Faith" Ari Marmell 311(50) D&D3 Customizing "Customized Classes" Paul M. Crabaugh 109(8) BD&D DARK SUN: v3.5 update "Dark Sun Classes: Heroes of a Dying World" David Noonan 319(32) D&D3 Death Master "For NPC's Only: The Death Master" Len Lakofka 76(10) D&D1 Deathwalker "Among the Dead" Michael Mearls 312(30) D&D3 Despot "Blackguards" James Jacobs 312(23) D&D3 Dreamer "Beyond the Gate of Dreams" John Nephew 132(16) D&D1 Druid (SEE Druid) Druid/Ranger "All About the Druid/Ranger" Frank Mentzer 100(9) D&D1 Duelist "Duelist, The" Arthur Collins 73(6) D&D1 Elves: Variants "Voyage of the Princess Ark, The" Bruce Heard 178(46) BD&D Enforcer "Champions of the Divine" James Jacobs 310(53) D&D3 Entertainer "Let Them Entertain You" Len Lakofka 69(54) D&D1 Escrimador "Kicks and Sticks" Joseph R. Ravitts 124(40) D&D1 Evangelist "Faces of Faith" Ari Marmell 311(52) D&D3 Exoticist "Specialist Fighters" Clifford Horowitz 310(35) D&D3 Fencer "Specialist Fighters" Clifford Horowitz 310(35) D&D3 Fighter (SEE Fighter) Filidh "Optional Class: Filidh" Paul Leach 324(90) D&D3 Fleshcrafter "Among the Dead" Michael Mearls 312(32) D&D3 Geisya "Geisya, The" Gregg Sharp 121(38) D&D1 Halfling Guardian "Don't Sell Them Short!" Peter Dosik 129(26) D&D1 Healer "Healers" C. Hettlestad 3(22) OD&D Hexblade (SEE Hexblade) Hopeless* "Rules To Lose By" Roger Koppy 96(54) D&D1 Horseman "Specialist Fighters" Clifford Horowitz 310(36) D&D3 Humanoids, for "Professional Monsters" Matthew Schutt 163(80) D&D2 Huntsman "Valley of the Earth Mother" Lise Breakey 102(54) D&D1 Idiot* "Idiot Class, The" Gordon Davidson 3(28) OD&D Illusionist (SEE Illusionist) Incantatrix "Enchanting Incantatrix, The" Ed Greenwood 90(8) D&D1 Incarnate "Champions of the Divine" James Jacobs 310(52) D&D3 Jester* "Jester, The" Roger E. Moore 60(45) D&D1 "New Category: Jesters!, The" Carner, Cannon & Simon 3(28) OD&D Repartee for "Pun Is Mightier Than the Sword, The" Steven P. King 120(12) D&D1 Jock* "Duh Jock" Jon Mattson 72(50) D&D1 Kensai "Specialist Fighters" Clifford Horowitz 310(36) D&D3 Knight "Specialist Fighters" Clifford Horowitz 310(36) D&D3 Magewright "Countdown to Eberron: A World Tempered By Magic" Mat Smith 319(50) D&D3 Magic items for "Bazaar of the Bizarre: Magic With Class" Lloyd Brown III 250(96) D&D2 Magic-user (SEE Magic-User; Sorcerer; Wizard) Mariner "For Sail: One New NPC" Scott Bennie 107(38) D&D1 Marshal: Commander auras "Marshal of Battle" Stefan Happ 348(92) D&D3 Merchant "Taking Care of Business" Anthony D. Gleckler 136(22) D&D1 Metal Master "Changing Nature's Design" Matthew Sernett 311(59) D&D3 Monk (SEE Monk) Monsters, for "Monsters With Class" Rich Redman, et al 293(52) D&D3 Celestials "Holier Than Thou: Celestial Monster Classes, Part I" Christopher Perkins 312(52) D&D3 Dragons "Dragon Player Characters" Mike McArtor 320(36) D&D3 Chromatic "Chromatic Dragons: Rage On Wings" Mike McArtor 332(26) D&D3 Half-Elementals "Born of Fire" Jonathan Drain 326(86) D&D3 Lycanthropes "Animal Ancestry" Dean Poisso 313(22) D&D3 Mother* "Mommy Dearest" Lawrence R. Wenzel 238(8) D&D2 Ninja (SEE Ninja) Oracle "Oracle: When He Talks, Everybody Listens, The" Andrew Dewar 53(14) D&D1 Paladin (SEE Paladin) Piao Shih "Born To Defend" Joseph R. Ravitts 164(26) D&D2 Politician "Bureaucrats and Politicians" Lakofka & Nystul 74(8) D&D1 Proposed "Character Classes To Consider" Gary Gygax 65(9) D&D1 "Loyal Readers" Gary Gygax 67(67) D&D1 Psionicist (SEE Psionicist) Pugilist "Specialist Fighters" Clifford Horowitz 310(37) D&D3 Pyrogean Wizard "Magic of the Seldarine" Chris Perry 251(34) D&D2 Ranger (SEE Ranger) Samurai "Samurai" Childers & Kay 3(25) OD&D "Samurai: An Honorable NPC, The" Anthony Salva 49(18) D&D1 Savant "Savant, The" Vince Garcia 140(16) D&D1 Scout "Scouting For New Options" Kim Eastland 161(71) D&D2 Scribe "Scribe Non-Player Character, The" Ed Greenwood 62(21) D&D1 "Scribes: New Specialist Described" David Mumper 3(23) OD&D Sentinel "Halt! Who Goes There?" Andy Pierce 89(34) D&D1 Sentinel "Champions of the Divine" James Jacobs 310(50) D&D3 Sha'ir "Return of the Sha'ir" Dean Poisso 315(78) D&D3 Shaman "Hey, Wanna Be a Kobold?" Joseph Clay 141(41) D&D1 Shield Bearer "Specialist Fighters" Clifford Horowitz 310(38) D&D3 Smith "Smith: Test the Metal Of This NPC, The" Ed Greenwood 70(4) D&D1 Sorcerer (SEE Sorcerer) Soul Reaper "Among the Dead" Michael Mearls 312(34) D&D3 Street Avenger "In a Class By Themselves" Tom Doolan 243(86) D&D2 Sumotori "Where There Is One Sumotori..." Stewart Wieck 157(32) D&D1 Survivalist "Specialist Fighters" Clifford Horowitz 310(38) D&D3 Taltos "Taltos, The" Tom Moldvay 247(38) D&D2 Targetteer "Specialist Fighters" Clifford Horowitz 310(38) D&D3 Thief (SEE Rogue) Thief-Acrobat "Split Class For Nimble Characters: The Thief-Acrobat" Gary Gygax 69(20) D&D1 Timelord "Timelords" Lewis Pulsipher 65(32) D&D1 Urban Druid "Urban Druids: Secret Voice of the City" James Jacobs 317(30) D&D3 Wild Defender "Optional Class: Wild Defender" Paul Leach 324(95) D&D3 Wild Monk "Optional Class: Wild Monk" Paul Leach 324(97) D&D3 Wild Reaper "Changing Nature's Design" Matthew Sernett 311(55) D&D3 Wind Walker "Changing Nature's Design" Matthew Sernett 311(57) D&D3 Winter Warden "Changing Nature's Design" Matthew Sernett 311(60) D&D3 Witch "Another Look at Witches and Witchcraft in D&D" Ronald Pehr 20(11) OD&D "Brewing Up a New NPC: The Witch" Bill Muhlhausen, et al 43(7) D&D1 "Witch, The" Bill Muhlhausen 114(8) D&D1 "Witchcraft Supplement for Dungeons & Dragons" Anonymous 5(4) OD&D Witch Doctor "Hey, Wanna Be a Kobold?" Joseph Clay 141(43) D&D1 Wizard (SEE Magic-user; Wizard) (SEE ALSO Kits, character; Monster classes; Multiclass paths; Prestige classes)
|
|
|
Post by Finarvyn on Aug 25, 2012 6:56:21 GMT -6
Well, that's just absurd. I suppose we ought to sort out the OD&D classes from the AD&D ones, which the DragonDex thingie didn't do. I'd set the cutoff from OD&D to AD&D somewhere around Dragon #30 or so. Personally, I'd take waysoftheearth's list and trim it thusly: - "New D&D Character Class: The Alchemist" Jon Pickens 2(28)
- "New D&D Character Subclass: The Berserker" Jon Pickens 3(27)
- "Healers" C. Hettlestad 3(22)
- "Idiot Class, The" Gordon Davidson 3(28)
- "New Category: Jesters!" Carner, Cannon & Simon 3(28)
- "Samurai" Childers & Kay 3(25)
- "Scribes: New Specialist Described" David Mumper 3(23)
- "Witchcraft Supplement for Dungeons & Dragons" Anonymous 5(4)
- "Another Look at Witches and Witchcraft in D&D" Ronald Pehr 20(11)
Of course, your mileage may vary. :-)
|
|
Azafuse
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 245
|
Post by Azafuse on Aug 25, 2012 9:01:45 GMT -6
There's this old thread concerning this same topic. There are some gygaxian lost classes too published on Liasons Dangereuses (in 1976) like the Pyrologist (#74), the Dwarf Craftsmen (aka Gygax invented the 4E) and the Hobbit Druid (#76).
|
|
|
Post by talysman on Aug 25, 2012 10:17:36 GMT -6
Since I just purchased and read the JG Ready Reference Sheets recently, the Buffoon class is pretty fresh in my mind. I'm debating whether the Beggar descriptions constitutes another class, or not...
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Aug 25, 2012 23:39:55 GMT -6
Thanks everyone! That was quick. I am not necessarily against incorporating classes from later editions. I like the idea of incorporating a couple of non-standard classes into my campaign. I also like the idea of NPC classes. Someone like an alchemist may make a useful NPC while not being an attractive option for players. I also did a bit of googling and found this index of the entire print run of the Dragon: www.aeolia.net/dragondex/articles-subject.html
|
|
|
Post by Finarvyn on Aug 26, 2012 7:22:35 GMT -6
List of D&D and AD&D Classes This is a step forward and a step back at the same time. Purple Worm has a listing of classes from the early days. The good news is that they add in White Dwarf (WD) articles to those in Dragon (D) and also note which can be found in Best of the Dragon (BOTD). The bad news is that they also bring AD&D classes back into the list. www.purpleworm.org/content/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=124&Itemid=156 I did some re-format stuff to compact the list. It was something like 5 pages when I started. I also added any classes from the Strategic Review (SR) and Liasons Dangereuses (LR) to the list. Accountant (D 48) Alchemist (D 2, D 45, D 49, D 130, BOTD-III, WD 20) Anti-Paladin (D 39, BOTD-II) Archer (D 45, BOTD-III) Artificer (WD 68) Assassin, variant (WD 3) Astrologer (D 45) Bandit (D 63, BOTD-IV) Barbarian (WD 4, errata in WD 12) Bard (SR 6, D 56, BOTD-I, BOTD-III) Battle Dancer (D 159) Beastmaster (D 119) Beggar (WD 58) Berserker DR. 3. D 133. BOTD-II) Black Priests (WD 22) Bounty Hunter (three versions D 52, BOTD-IV) Brownies (WD 29) Bureaucrat (D 74) Cavalier (D 148) Cavalier, Elven (D 114) Charlatan (D 120) Cleric, Barbarian (D 109) Cleric, Cloistered (D 68, BOTD-IV) Cleric, Dwarven (D 129) Cleric, Underseas (D 165) Death Master (D 76, BOTD-IV) Demonist (WD 47 plus extras in WD4) Detective (WD 24) Dreamer (D 132) Druid/Ranger (D 100) Duelist (D 73, BOTD-IV) Dwarf Craftsmen (LD 76) Elementalist (WD 23) Elves, grey and sylvan (WD 29) Entertainer, multiple types (D 69) Escrimador, Pacific-Island martial artist (D 124) Geisya, Geisha (D 121) Genin, ninja operative (D 121) Greek Martial Arts (D 156, corrections in D 160) Guardian, Halfling (D 129) Gypsy (D 59) Hag (WD 62) Healer (D 3, BOTD-II) Hermit (WD 62) Hobbit Druid (LD 76) Houri (WD 13) Huntsman (D 102 at the end of the adventure) Ice Age (BOTD-V) Idiot (D 3) Illusionist (SR 4, BOTD-I) Incantatrix, mage variant (D 90) Jester D 3, D 60, D 120, BOTD-IV) Jock (D 72) Lizardman (WD 26) Lycanthrope (BOTD-I, BOTD-II) Man-Beast (WD 8) Mariner (D 107) Merchant (D 62, D 136, partial in BOTD-V, WD 21) Miscellaneous, by Gygax (D 65, D 67) Monk (D 53, BOTD-III) Monster Classes: Lammasu, Werebear, Blink Dog, Stone Giant (WD 17) Neanderthal for Classic D&D (D 118) Necromancer (WD 35 plus extras in WD 36) New Martial Arts (D 127) Ninja(D 16, D 30, BOTD-II, WD 57, WD 56 to 59) Oracle (D 53, BOTD-V) Paladins (7 variants D 106) Pervert (WD 1) Piao Shih, caravan escort (D 164) Politician (D 74) Psionicist (D 78) Pyrologist (LD 74) Ranger (SR 2, BOTD-I) Samurai (D3, D49, BOTD-II) Savant (D 140) Scientist (WD 2) Scout (D 161) Scribe (D 3, D 62, BOTD-II, BOTD-IV) Sentinel - guard (D 89) Shaman (D 141) Smith (BOTD-IV) Smith (D 70) Summoner (WD 27) Sumotori (2 versions D 157) Thief-Acrobat (D 69) Timelord (D 65) Vivimancers (WD 67) War Smiths (WD 28) Weakling (WD 11) Witch Doctor (D 141) Witch (D 5, D 20, D 43, D 114, BOTD-I)
|
|
|
Post by Zenopus on Aug 26, 2012 8:34:13 GMT -6
There's also a bunch of variant classes scattered throughout issues of Alarums & Excursion and Judges Guild Journal:
I currently have one issue of A&E #30 (Jan '78, so everything was written before AD&D was available), which has a variant Assassin Class and a Musketeer Class.
I picked up a random JGJ (#18, Dec 1979), which has a Venefic (poison maker) class, which appears to be for D&D rather than AD&D. Their CON can go down as they go up levels due to the hazards of their profession.
|
|
|
Post by Finarvyn on Aug 26, 2012 10:06:45 GMT -6
I have almost all of the Judges Guild magazines. I had planned on digging through my box eventually to add to my list, but haven't gotten around to it yet.
|
|
|
Post by jmccann on Aug 26, 2012 10:35:14 GMT -6
There's also a bunch of variant classes scattered throughout issues of Alarums & Excursion and Judges Guild Journal: I don't know much about A&E but after reading *Playing at the World* I am very interested in it. Does anyone know of an index? Reproductions of at least some back issues are still available.
|
|
|
Post by talysman on Aug 26, 2012 11:18:37 GMT -6
Are the Bard Games classes for OD&D, or AD&D? I always thought the former, but I never got around to buying those books...
|
|
|
Post by Falconer on Aug 26, 2012 21:28:07 GMT -6
The classes from Liaisons Dangereuses Gary Gygax’s Hunter class The Jester from MOZ1 (not written up as a class, but can be used as a template for one)
|
|
|
Post by Falconer on Aug 26, 2012 21:33:52 GMT -6
Judges Guild Mycretian (CSWE), Witch (Witches Court Marshes), Woman/Amazon? (CSIO)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 7:08:24 GMT -6
Beggar and Buffoon both had full level charts in CSIO as well. Buffoon was "a subclass of Fighter."
|
|
LouGoncey
Level 4 Theurgist
"Lather. Rinse. Repeat. That's my philosophy."
Posts: 108
|
Post by LouGoncey on Aug 27, 2012 12:37:51 GMT -6
The Idiot sounds like a character class that I would love to play.
|
|
|
Post by Sean Michael Kelly on Aug 27, 2012 13:22:43 GMT -6
The Idiot sounds like a character class that I would love to play. I play that class most days.
|
|