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Post by Finarvyn on Nov 23, 2007 15:48:10 GMT -6
This board game was also a semi-RPG in that there were individual characters performing quests at the same time as armies did what armies do. It's been a while since I played it, but it has a great map (heavy, similar in quality to the original EPT maps) and a number of regular counters for soldiers and horses and weapons. (Even arrows.)
It's a game based on Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser series of books. As such, characters wandered the board trying to complete quests in much the same way as the characters of the books would do. There was a deck of random-draw quest cards so that a player would know what to accomplish.
Another neat thing about Lankhmar is that it was designed by Harry O. Fisher, who was one of the inspirations for the Fafhrd and Grey Mouser characters. (I think Leiber was the Mouser and Fisher was Fafhrd, but maybe I have them reversed.) Fisher also wrote some articles in early Dragon magazine. I can hunt through the Dragon archive DVD and look up the issue numbers if anyone is particularly interested.
Not particluarly tied to the game, I occasionally run Lankhmar campaigns using OD&D or the AD&D 2E boxed set. There is also a RuneQuest version of the Lankhmar RPG if anyone likes that kind of thing.
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Post by greentongue on Nov 24, 2007 17:43:17 GMT -6
I have the mag with the "In the beginning" for the Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser series. (How it all started.)
I think it was White Dwarf, I'll have to dig it out to confirm if anyone is interested.
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Post by Finarvyn on Nov 24, 2007 23:17:02 GMT -6
I am interested. I know that there was some sort of "origin of F&GM" fiction in an early issue of Dragon but was unaware that anything of the sort might have existed in While Dwarf.
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Post by doc on Nov 27, 2007 18:18:54 GMT -6
In one of the very early issues of Dragon (issue 3 IIRC), Fritz Leiber wrote a short story about the early years of the Grey Mouser. I have that big CD collection of the first 250 issues, and I definitely recall reading it.
Speaking of which, I have heard that Leiber himself was a champion fencer in his day. Can anybody confirm this?
Doc
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Post by Finarvyn on Nov 28, 2007 14:02:48 GMT -6
That sounds familiar to me, but I don't know of any official source to confirm this.
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Post by greentongue on Nov 28, 2007 20:05:02 GMT -6
You are correct!
The Dragon #18, Vol III No. 4
Sept., 1978
The Childhood and Youth of the Grey Mouser
by Harry O. Fischer (with introduction by Fritz Leiber)
Pages 28, 29 & 31
(Yes, I finally dug it out.)
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Post by Zulgyan on Jun 7, 2008 22:06:30 GMT -6
Hey, I'm really intrigued about this game and it's interest for the OD&D gamer. I checked out the map on a boardgame site and it looked quite cool.
Could you provide any more details to the game? How does it work? Any interesting ideas or concepts for an OD&D game?
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Post by ewilen on Jun 24, 2008 13:40:35 GMT -6
A couple notes...
Fafhrd was based on Leiber and the Mouser on Fisher (i.e., Finarvyn had them reversed).
I've read...somewhere...that the board game pubished by TSR was a simplified version of a game that Fisher and Leiber made by hand and played many decades before (like in the 30's-50's).
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Thangobrind
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Gygaxian Naturist
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Post by Thangobrind on Dec 24, 2008 12:34:51 GMT -6
I've read...somewhere...that the board game pubished by TSR was a simplified version of a game that Fisher and Leiber made by hand and played many decades before (like in the 30's-50's). There's an article on this in the very first issue of The Dragon IIRC. I would love to know what became of this game and whether there are any more articles related to it. |
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Post by Finarvyn on Dec 24, 2008 15:43:53 GMT -6
Could you provide any more details to the game? How does it work? Any interesting ideas or concepts for an OD&D game? It's been 20 years since I actually played the game but I seem to recall that you play the role of one of the principal heroes and you were trying to capture each other's citadel strongholds before they captured yours. I believe that there were "quest" cards that sent you all over the map trying to accomplish missions. In addition to your heroes, I think you could acquire men-at-arms, horses, weapons, and whatnot. The rules were pretty simple (I'm guessing about 8 pages or so) and the map was in color and on a slick plastic background so as not to tear. (The same kind of surface as the EPT map, if that helps.) I'm pretty sure it was marketed as a wargame, but with the characters it was kind of RPG-ish. On the other hand, I don't recall there being much background useful in an RPG or stats for characters or anything so complex. The map was clearly my favorite part of the whole game, and I have run many a Lankhmar RPG campaign using it. |
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Post by Finarvyn on Dec 24, 2008 15:54:15 GMT -6
FUrther information found here: In 1937, Leiber and his college friend Harry Otto Fischer created a complex wargame set within the world of Nehwon, which Fischer had helped to create. Later, they created a simplified board game entitled simply "Lankhmar" which was released by TSR in 1976. This is a rare case of a game adaptation written by the creators of the stories on which the game is based. The TSR game is for 2-4 players, each of whom takes a hero (Fafhrd, the Gray Mouser, Pulgh, or Movarl) and leads the forces of one of the powers of Nehwon in an effort to capture the opponents' citadels. This oppositional stance is unusual for the series, though there were a few times in the stories where Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser were temporarily committed to opposing sides. The TSR game is simple and includes bits of color from the series, such as geases that send the heroes around the board chasing various goals at the behest of Sheelba, Ningauble, or various gods. |
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Post by bigjackbrass on Feb 4, 2009 11:24:00 GMT -6
I've no interest in bidding myself and the auction ends in just a few hours, but I spotted a copy of Lankhmar for sale on eBay, which may be of interest to some. Not cheap, by the looks of it. |
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Post by coffee on Feb 4, 2009 11:37:36 GMT -6
Yeah, this one pops up occasionally, but never at a price I want to pay.
I note how the box advertises it as an "Adult Fantasy Game". In today's world, that would mean a whole other thing...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2009 13:54:30 GMT -6
I note how the box advertises it as an "Adult Fantasy Game". In today's world, that would mean a whole other thing... Oh, and that RPG with "Dungeons" isn't Adult Fantasy?  |
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Post by Finarvyn on Jun 18, 2009 13:27:05 GMT -6
Been re-reading old issues of Dragon and found a several-part sequence of articles about the old Lankhmar board game.
Part 1: The Formative Years of Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser (#30)
Part 2: The Original Game and What it Became (#31)
Part 3: Converting the new game into the old LAKHMAR (#33)
Part 4: Converting to LAKHMAR in a Nutshell (#34)
Part 5: MacLankhmar”- A Compromise Game (#36)
Part 6: Combat in the Compromise Game (#37)
Part 7: A Fafhrd-Mouser adventure – in puzzle form (#38)
I haven't read through all of these pages yet, but the gist of it is that there was a pre-TSR game created by Leiber and Fisher and the author is trying to discuss how to reverse-engineer the final TSR product in order to create something similar to the original version of the game.
By the way "Lakhmar" is not a typo above. McKnight used "Lakhmar" and "Lankhmar" to distinguish the old from the TSR versions of the game.
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Post by harami2000 on Jun 18, 2009 19:45:29 GMT -6
(Apols. for the repetition/reposting from elsewhere)It's fairly likely that's at least in part due to the game originally being readied by EGG for publication via Guidon Games before D&D was on the scene and thus definitely in "wargame" mode rather than reworked (yet again) in the light of D&D's commercial success - probably at least in part at the instigation of Brad Stock who had been hassling Fritz about wishing to create a boardgame based on Lankhmar. => boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4025boardgamegeek.com/image/451536?size=originalimg.photobucket.com/albums/v316/harami2000/lankmar_leibernote.jpg (Fritz was out-of-the-loop as to what was up with Guidon, apparently). IMHO it's possibly noteworthy that Lankhmar, again, thus comes out somewhat stronger in general than LoTR (with an eye to overall background influences early/mid-70s for EGG). Battle of the Five Armies in boardgame form, for example, being thus much later than Lankhmar and also "borrowed" - per img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/harami2000/bo5a2.jpg - rather than (re-)envisioned by EGG from scratch. 02c/ymmv  d.
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Post by tavis on Aug 31, 2009 22:39:47 GMT -6
I picked up a Lankhmar set at Crazy Egor's booth @ Gen Con for something like $35 IIRC, which blew my mind even before I factored in the two-for-one deal - I'd long assumed this was in the same "would be awesome but will never happen" category as, say, the original "pizza box" edition of Titan.
I haven't played it yet but hope to soon.
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Post by bigjackbrass on Oct 27, 2009 10:48:05 GMT -6
... and I've just come from eBay where I placed the winning bid on a near mint, unpunched copy for about $12! Fingers crossed it arrives in one piece The trouble with you lot is that you keep bringing these games to my attention! |
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Post by coffee on Oct 27, 2009 10:56:39 GMT -6
Good job finding that on eBay! Every time I've seen one, it was already in the $25 range for a punched copy.
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Post by bigjackbrass on Oct 27, 2009 11:06:20 GMT -6
I was helped by some fairly poor wording in the item description. The seller called it a "Vintage 1976 Roll Play Game" which probably let it slip under the radar for some buyers.
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Post by deodanth on Dec 17, 2009 2:32:49 GMT -6
Been re-reading old issues of Dragon... Part 1: The Formative Years of Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser (#30) Part 2: The Original Game and What it Became (#31) Part 3: Converting the new game into the old LAKHMAR (#33) Part 4: Converting to LAKHMAR in a Nutshell (#34) Part 5: MacLankhmar”- A Compromise Game (#36) Part 6: Combat in the Compromise Game (#37) Part 7: A Fafhrd-Mouser adventure – in puzzle form (#38) I have no idea which one it was, but I remember seeing an illustration from one of the articles in the day. It showed a big mouse tail peeking from under the Gray Mouser's cloak. Anyone else recall this amusing piece of artwork? |
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Post by geoffrey on Jan 21, 2018 8:37:04 GMT -6
In the AD&D Deities & Demigods Cyclopedia, Movarl has a +1 two-handed sword and Pulgh has a +3 spear (while neither Fafhrd nor the Gray Mouser has any magic weaponry). Is this reflected in the boardgame?
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Post by Finarvyn on Jan 21, 2018 8:45:07 GMT -6
In the AD&D Deities & Demigods Cyclopedia, Movarl has a +1 two-handed sword and Pulgh has a +3 spear (while neither Fafhrd nor the Gray Mouser has any magic weaponry). Is this reflected in the boardgame? I will have to look to be certain, but I'm pretty sure that there are special magical items for some characters. Sword and spear do sound familiar but the plusses certainly wouldn't be the same since the combat system isn't the same. |
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Post by geoffrey on Jan 23, 2018 9:19:59 GMT -6
In the AD&D Deities & Demigods Cyclopedia, Movarl has a +1 two-handed sword and Pulgh has a +3 spear (while neither Fafhrd nor the Gray Mouser has any magic weaponry). Is this reflected in the boardgame? I will have to look to be certain, but I'm pretty sure that there are special magical items for some characters. Sword and spear do sound familiar but the plusses certainly wouldn't be the same since the combat system isn't the same. I'll appreciate you checking. Please let us know what you find out! |
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