Hidden Kingdom

[doc]

Hidden Kingdom was put out by New Rules Inc. in 1983. It is an Arthurian game, strongly influenced by board and strategy games, yet very definitely an RPG. Eclipsed by Pendragon, it fell out of production with only the game and a single supplement having made it into production.

You do not create characters for HK, as all players are supposed to pick a premade character from the Arthurian mythos (they have 300 of them listed, from Arthur all the way down to characters who are mentioned only in passing in the chronicles) and play them. Characters are rated for Swordplay, Offense Bonus (an indication of strength), Defense Bonus (an indication of agility) and Leadership if male or Beauty if female. Each character starts in their home province and goes on quests to bring honor and/or glory to their name. It adds some degree of realism that characters don't start off together but must meet up "on the road." A nice change from "you all meet in a tavern."

The systems are very simple. While there is some degree of paperwork that must be kept to keep track of which character is where at what time and doing what, it can be done away with easily once all the characters meet up. There are two particular aspects of the game that I like a lot. The first is the achievement (experience) rules. Each character gets achievement points based on their alignment (which can be either Christian Chivalrous, Pagan Chivalrous, Christian Renunciate, or pagan Powerlord). Thus, a pagan powerlord serving a more pious knight would get -4 points as it is an act that is looked down upon by his alignment, while a Christian Civalrous would get +1. A Pagan Powerlord would be docked -4 poinjts for sparing an opponent's life, while a chivalrous character would get +4 points. There are a good three pages of examples for achievement points concerning what bonuses and penalties apply for each alignment, and they are a lot of fun to read.

The second thing that I really like is the lists of encounters (64 pages worth) that all have a distinctly Arthurian feel to them. You might encounter two brigands harrassing a maiden, only to find much later on after you save the maiden that she is an evil witch who had been set upon by witch hunters. A peasant girl might turn out to be a woman of noble birth attempting to find a truly chivalrous knight to act as her champion. A mead hall might house the last surviving member of a once prosperious family now under a curse, or it may be the lair of an order of black knights out to over throw Camelot by striking a bargain with fiends from Hell. And those examples are just the beginning.

Although it came out in 1983 and has a clearly defined setting, HK has a distinctly old school feel to it. Most notibly, the rumes sytem is somewhat open to intepretation and can be tweaked and modified to your heart's content. My group created a way to create original characters and start them off as squires and advance them through knighthood all the way up to becoming legends of the realm should they exist that long.

If you like Arthurian legends and happen to come across a copy of this hard to find game, you might want to take a look. Be warned, though. if you prefer the works of JRR or REH then this game really isn't going to convert well for you.

Doc

[Finarvyn]

Never heard of it, which is strange because while I sometimes find games I've never played or read, I've usually heard about them enough to say a few words about the game. Drawing a total blank on this one, but it does sound interesting because I'm a sucker for Arthurian role playing. (I own the Prince Valiant game, the RPG and campaign sourcebooks for Pendragon, TSR's Knights of Camelot, and others.)

Now I have to scurry off to Google again.....

[kesher]

Whoo, I don't think I ever tried to hard to wrap my head around some of these nuances!

However, I'll try and take a look--though I may not be able to get to it until next week (work, travel, more work...)

[xerxez]

Essential Elements of Hidden Kingdom.


How Does One Play?


There is a giant Map of Britain and Ireland, 459 A.D.


It is divided by numbered hexes, and the hexes are marked for terrain type, major political boundaries, and smaller provinces. Every single town, chapel, monastery, and individual castle of the game world is marked on the Map. Further, a source book tells the name of every King, Queen, Knight and Lady who inhabits every single castle on the Map. There are 300 of these castles and the Lord or Lady of each is playable as a character in the game.


These are the only characters one can have in the game, and they are all drawn from Classical Arthurian Romantic literature. They are of four sorts,: Chivalrous Christians, Renunciate Christians, Chivalrous Pagans, and Powerlord Pagans. In most cases, the characters world view is already listed but some are open.



The Four Alignments and Character Types

These four character types represent the four alignments of the game, a major focus of play.


Some of these characters come to the table with alliances, enmities, family, spouses and paramours as well as, in a few cases, special abilities.


Actual Play

When you have chosen a character, you begin on the map where the book states that your castle is.


The Game Book also has a listing of the number of peasants and militia in each province, as well as its monthly food production and the amount of gold owned by each and every king.


You leave your castle and travel the map to go upon quests.


These quests can be small and seemingly mundane in nature, such as traveling to another castle to attend a jousting tourney, or some great adventure such as to seek a lost relic.


You could simply be traveling to meet up with the other players if they are your friends or allies so you can all go on an adventure together.


A game begins on a certain day of a certain month and generally each game will encompass the evens within a month.


You can manage your province as well as your individual character by announcing what you want to do to the Game Guide--he also has special tables and it possible for various Acts of God to occur in month that could weaken your kingdom/province.


The game guide must keep track of a calendar and notes of character actions that will affect them later in the game. There is a Harvest month that increases provincial holdings once per year, trade with other players or non-player Kings and Queens can also increase it.


There are movement rates for the Map that depend on your means of travel and the terrain. Each "empty" hex you enter (no town, chapel, castle or monastery) has a chance of a random encounter. These encounters can be with Men-Types, Faery-Types, Monster-Types, or Special Situations. encounters can become quests, be role playing encounters, or become dangerous battles or all three.

The Game Book has a long list of Special Situations.


If you enter a castle hex, there is a table for castle reactions to you, modified by any special allainces, family, or enemies your character might start with or incur later in the game. Whether a castle is hospitable to you, hostile, indifferent or hosting a tournament are the possible outcomes.


In a town or castle hex or with merchant encounters in the wilderness, you can trade and buy and sell goods.


Monasteries are like hospitals and if you reach one's hex you can get healing.


The Four Modes of Play




There are 4 Modes of play, look at each at a degree of magnification of the time and events taking place.


1st Mode is traveling the map and/or taking care of provincial affairs.


2nd Mode is when an encounter occurs and you get into role playing.


3rd Mode is actual individual combat during an encounter, or sundry options a character can undertake in a town, monastery, chapel, or castle or supernatural intervention such as the use of magic or petitioning for miracles.


4th mode is large scale mass combat, tournaments, or the traditional role playing type adventure of a mapped out ruin or dungeon.


These modes can change as a result of the focus of the players and game guide or by chance through how play unfolds. The game can have any level of complexity or simplicity desired.


While all role playing games have these modes, very few have such a detailed and comprehensive map with peasant populations and production, as well as castle inhabitants already detailed and pre-built with character dynamics that depend on a players character choice. A great deal of the GM's world building work is already done.


Role Playing and Game Objectives


How you play your character depends on the Alignments we have mentioned, and inded, this, alignment, is a central focus of the game.


The premise of the game setting is that the Pagan Order is still preeminent in the Isles but Arthur has become King of Logres and he is a Christian but rather than seeking to establish Christianity he seeks to unite the Pagans and Christians of the Isles to repel all outer threats. The new order he proposes to achieve this unification is an order based on Chivalry.


Chivalrous Christians and Chivalrous Pagans have accepted the new order and promote it by their behavior actions and goals.


Renunciate Christians reject this compromise and serve only pure spiritual Christianity.


Powerlord Pagans likewise reject the new order and seek only their own power and advancement in the tradition of the warlord or the Pagan sorceress.


Nothing in these world views dictates that those of opposing alignments are necessarily enemies or must attack or oppose each other. Players of widely divergent alignments can all quest together if desired if there is a logical common end in mind .



There is a Faith Rating, a Power Rating, and a Chivalry rating.


The first is the only concern of Renunciate Christians, while Powerlord Pagans care only about their Power Rating. Chivalrous Christians and Chivalrous Pagans are concerned with their Chivalry Rating, but Chivalrous Christians must pay some heed to their faith rating as well.


There is a detailed list of behaviors and actions possible within the game that can give bonuses or penalties to these ratings, depending on character actions. The object of the game is to have the highest rating possible in the score that matters to your characters alignment .


Magic and Miracles



Supernatural intervention can come in the form of Magic or Miracles.


Only Pagan characters can use magic.


There are five levels of magical power and a small but well rounded list of spells under each level. Using magic has a percentage chance of being successful, the lower level the spell the greater chance it will work.


However, magic also has a chance to unleash powerful negative forces in a character's life--the chance this will happen, and how serious these effects are, goes up with the level of the magic being used.


If successful, spells are instantaneous and grant such powers as invisibility, flying, immunity to certain effects, and changing one's appearance, as examples.


Since the Code of chivalry holds that such unfair advantages as magic violate its focus on manly physical prowess and courage, male Chivalrous Pagans who use magic incur penalties against their Chivalry Rating.


Miracles can only be sought by Christians.


Miracles are healing, protective, restorative and guiding in nature.


They come as a result of prayer or through encounters with very spiritual beings such as hermits, recluses, or angelic beings.


Prayers are aided by fasting and being near chapels, and the power of a miracle is more comprehensive the less selfish is its petition.


Game Mechanics



Complex as the game sounds, actual mechanics are very simple.


Here is a sample Knight:


Name: Bertilak

Alignment: Pagan Chivalrous

Kingdom (Province): Gore (Riding)

Blazon: Ver, a battle axe in bend argent (note: heraldic terms defiend in the rules and illustrated).

Born: 10/397

Leadership Bonus: 0

Weight: 204 Swordplay Roll: 11 Offensive Bonus: +3 Defensive Bonus:-2

Unseating Number (Jousting Bonus): 16 (0)

Special Ability: By the word of Queen Morgan Le fay, can become the Great Green Knight for one day per month, whereby he becomes green in color and all wounds taken are healed at the end of the day, even fatal wounds, and none cause him to cease functioning.



And a sample Lady Character:


Name: Queen Morgan Le Fay of Gore

Alignment: Pagan Powerlord

Home Castle: Maidens Castle in Gore

Blazon: per fess Or and azure, in chief a dragon rampant sable and in base a ram's face Or.

Born: 9/395

Weight: 124

Beauty Rating: 7

Family: Husband, king Uriens; Son, Uwayne le Blanchmains; Mother, Dame Igraine; Sisters, Queen Elaine and morgause;Half-brother, king arthur.

Paramour: Accolon and Hemyson.

Enemies: King Arthur

Special Ability: (+30%) Success probability on casting spells.
Special Beginning Equipment: The Drinking horn of Chastity, Morgan's Mantle.



I have picked two examples of the more colorful Characters, but most characters have no special abilities like these do. But nor do they have the enemies or weaknesses of these two! Note that Bertilak has a no Leadership Bonus. This is a weakness--some Knights have no special powers but have a better Swordplay Roll, a Leadership Bonus, Weigh more, etc.


All Women have a base Swordplay Roll of 17, but they also have an attribute that male characters do not have, a Beauty rating, which can be used to compel characters (players and non player characters) to grant requests to them or gain service!



How simple is the combat mechanic in this game?


The Sword Play Roll is a character's base chance to hit with a d20, modified by the size of the weapon they are using, larger weapons being harder to wield but doing more damage.


Weight is the equivalent of Hit Points.

Armor is handled uniquely--there is a hit location chart and if you are not wearing armor, there is an add on to your damage.


Very Customized Game Possibilities


There are many ways Hidden Kingdom can be played.


It is designed to be played without miniatures but it can adopt miniatures as well, and there is actually potential for a strong war gaming element if one desires.


It can be run like a traditional role playing game (4th Mode) and each person can become the game guide once they design a maze, dungeon, Ruin or what have you.


The Kingdom and provincial building aspects (trade, politics, etc) can be played to a degree desired or largely ignored.


If politics becomes a focus (beyond alignment), the depth and degree of it will depend on the gaming group's grasp of such matters as little historical material is given, though a wide bibliography is recommended and can only improve play.


If one wishes, players can oppose each other and work against each other to varying degrees, not only against non-player characters



There is very ample opportunity for role playing and the social factor for the game is high.


While a group should be small until the rules are mastered, there is no reason why a very large number (10-12 players) could not be involved once there are people present who are able to help fellow players resolve their turns, such as undertake combats, while the GG is conducting the rest of the game .



House rules could be introduced, such as making Stonehenge give power to Pagan Characters the way Chapels give power to Christians.


There may also be a way to make the Alignment Ratings more relevant to actual play in the game (like increasing chances in miracles and encounters), since as is they are really just a score.



I don't want to mess with the rules for awhile though.



I intend to keep a tally of my players ratings while they play and the player with the highest score becomes Lord or Lady of the Chalice, a special drinking cup they hold while occupying the position.


L.O.t.C. will have certain very limited but significant veto and decision making powers during the game, such as what Mode to close a session out with (this can affect someone's character if they don't want a lot of time to pass I the game world before the next adventure) and other things.


Each player could also bring some small tribute (a candy bar or the like) and whoever gets L.O.t.C. gets the loot at the end. There are other things one could do to make for a unique game, such as the use of props, themed music, or watching the occasional film and feasting and making merry instead of paying the game.


Or, you could just play the game without such nonsense.



In short, if you come to the table looking specifically for what you get out of D&D or even ballpark, you will likely not find Hidden Kingdom to your taste at all as the flavor could not be more different.


But if you like Arthurian style games, and a different kind of feel and tension in the game from the unique alignment system and the ever changing 4 modes of play, you will greatly enjoy it!


Xerxez

Note: For additional review and other images of the game, visit here:

rpggeek.com/rpgitem/56019/hidden-kingdom

[xerxez]

A further thought about Hidden Kingdom that I posted as a response comment on my blog.

(I'm too lazy to re-type it)

Honestly, the core mechanic would work for any rpg or setting if one took the time to create the Map. A game of Middle earth based on this system would be tremendous, though the work involved would be staggering! Going through and statting out every single mentioned character, the hexing of the Maps, placing of castles towns and villages--wow!

[Falconer]

That’s really interesting, but I wonder where the Christians vs. Pagans thing comes from.

[xerxez]

Falconer

There actually was a great deal of conflict between Christianity and Paganism in the period.

But the game deals with a time when people had a chance to assimilate this all and let most of the conflict be in their own thoughts...if there was any conflict...instead of on a battlefield or through Inquisitions. People chose Paganism or Christianity as spiritual teachings on their own merits. I'm sure that for rulers it always carried political considerations and religion of any sort was always a key factor in politics--it's not without reason the game of chess includes the Bishop piece who has his own unique powers....

In Hidden Kingdom, though, it is the Pagan view that is transcendent in the kingdoms--the Pagan Order is very much alive, and Camelot is not there to convert them to Christianity but to unify Britain. I believe many of the knights at the Round Table in the game are Pagan.

However, the game does not really pit Christians against Pagans.

It lets the individual player run his character according to the personal world view he has chosen, merely his own code reflected in his Faith, Power, and Chivalry ratings when he lives up to or doesn't live up the alignment.

In the words of one review, the game "polarizes and glorifies certain elements of both world views, Christian and Pagan" and this is a balance very well struck.

I am certain that very opinionated Pagans or Christians could find fault with how their world view is portrayed in the game introduction (there is a lengthy discussion of this in the pertinent rules section) but to me that would be pointless debate since the game does not try to convert anyone to anything and is very well researched for the period.

Extreme fundamentalists would be upset that you can play a Pagan character, and that magic works, and that anything good was said about Pagans or Paganism at all.

Dogmatic Pagans would criticize that Miracles work (implying the existence of the Christian God) and that bad effects can happen to Pagans for using magic but not to Christians for using miracles, and that anything good was said about Christians or Christianity at all.

In fact, I have taken a look here and there at some magical texts written by Pagans and infidels and as minute as my "studies" were, one thing that I got from most of them is that trying to manipulate the forces of nature and the cosmos can be dangerous and have unintended negative consequences, so I don't think the game's portrayal of magic use is at all askew.

"The Winter King" by Bernard Cornwell was an enlightening fictio read regarding these conflicts though its been over ten years I think since I read it and I don't recall if Arthur was Christian or Pagan in it.

The history of the English people by the monk "Bede" is biased of course but also very informative about the subject. I enjoyed it, it wasn't dry at all, Bede is quite a character but of course the miracles were a bit ridiculous even to a Christian.

[Falconer]

I didn’t mean to put you on the spot, I was just wondering aloud if anyone knew of any literary precedents within Arthurian literature for the idea that there were still any pagans in Arthur’s kingdom. I’ve been reading a lot of Arthurian literature lately, along the lines of Chrétien de Troyes, Robert de Boron, and Malory. It seems like everyone is a Christian in these works, except the occasional Saracen. Does Hidden Kingdom list any of its influences?

[xerxez]

You make a good point Falconer.

Aside from the Winter King (which as I remember also has some Pagan main characters), I have only ever read The OnceFuture King and Le Morte de Arthur and in both of these, as I recall, all the characters were Christian.

I read these in high school and in my excitement with the game I had forgotten that the traditional Arthur dates much later than the period in the game.

My comments above were about the period when Christianity was not the official religion of Britain and Ireland's people but was known and adhered to by some. However, as you have pointed out, this would have been before Arthur's time in the most popular books.

Aside from Malory and White, The Bibliography suggests starting by reading these books as well:

The Acts of King Arthor and His Noble Knights by John Steinbeck (Ballantine, 1976)

A History of the Kings of Britain by Geoffery of Monmouth (Dutton, 1958)

The Crystal Cave by Mary Stewart (Fawcett Crest, 1970)

Parzival by Wolfram von Eshenbach (Random, 1961)

Idylls of the King by Alred Lord Tennyson (New Amer. Libry. of World Lit., 1961)

The King Arthur Companion by Phyllis Ann Karr (Reston, 1983)

The Quest of the Holy Grail , unknown author, ( translated by PM Matarasso, Penguin, 1969).

It has a further suggestion for "the more intuitive players" and these are:

The Allegory of Love by CS Lewis (Oxford Univ., 1936

Arthur King of Britain by Richard Brengle (Meredith, 1964)

Arthur's Britain by Leslie Alcock (Pelican, 1971)

Arthurian Literature in the Middle Ages by R.S. Loomis(Oxford Univ., 1959)

From Ritual to Romance by Jessie Weston (Anchor 1957)

Mythology by C.K. Hillegas (Cliff Notes, 1973)



I was researching this on the net and it seems the earliest accounts of Arthur put him in the late sixth century at the earliest.

Perhaps some of the historical books in the second list provide evidence for earlier origins for the Arthur myth.

I have actually attempted to contact the game author but have been unsuccessful as yet.

I would find it incredible if the designers had not done their homework as they have compiled a list of 300 personages from Arthurian literature, as well as the names of historical or legendary Kingdoms and Provinces and an illustrated appendice that is a very well researched primer on basic heraldry.

I still intend to go with it! I have never believed Arthur existed anyway so a 5th century Arthur is as good for my game purposes as a later Arthur.

Thanks for the insight.

[xerxez]

P.S., Also I was mistaken about the game era, in re-reading I see that the DM is to begin his game in September, 459. Still too early it would seem but much later than the year I initially posted.

Not sure where I got 416.

My apologies.

[Falconer]

Interesting. Like you, I agree there is no “historical Arthur” per se.

1. Artorius (2nd c.) could very well have been the original of the name.

2. But the earliest texts we have that talk about Arthur as such are basically from the 11th c. These are completely mythological folk-tales, notably the incredible Culhwch and Olwen. Here it is clear that the name of Arthur is really famous, but nothing about his real life is remembered.

3. Then we have Geoffrey Monmouth, writing in the 12th c., trying to create a “history” of Arthur basically from whole cloth, so he pieces together the lives of the historical Riothamus and Ambrosius Aurelianos (both late 5th c.) and calls it Arthur. It’s because of this that people usually think of Arthur as having lived in the 5th c. The 459 date you cite above is probably based on the fact that a bishop wrote a letter to Riothamus, King of the Britons, circa 460.

4. But for the most famous stories of Arthurian literature—i.e., Lancelot and the Grail—we can go back only as far as Chrétien de Troyes, a 12th c. French poet. Chrétien presumably worked off of originals that he didn’t fully understand, but it was his version that became canon for generations to come. Here we see for the first time knights on horseback, adventuring in the wilderness, winning ladies through feats of strength, and returning to Arthur’s court for glory.

So to me, if I were running an Arthurian campaign, I’d probably call it the 5th c., but I wouldn’t let historical accuracy dominate the feel of campaign. IMO, it should have a late 11th c. feel. That is the past that Chrétien is nostalgic for and paints so romantically. Honestly, if you think of Arthur as a stand-in for William the Conqueror, it all clicks. Plus, you have the Bayeux Tapestry as an awesome visual resource and guide for what technology is available.

But, that’s just my opinion!

[Falconer]

Sorry to derail the thread. Hidden Kingdom still looks like a very worthwhile buy. I have just been thinking and reading a lot of Arthurian literature lately, so it has been on my mind what sort of campaign I would run based on it. I just fear that if one “goes back in time” too much and tries too hard to “reconstruct a historical Arthur” then one has lost too much of what was so awesome about Arthurian literature in the first place. Like the 2004 King Arthur movie. They really threw out the baby with the bath water, with that one.

[tombowings]

Like Shakespeare's Comedies and Histories, Arthurian literature is very much a product of it's time. Anachronism just wasn't a big deal until relatively recently, usually though to coincide with the rise of realism on stage. Think of Midsummer Night's Dream, supposedly set in ancient Athens: there were NO nunneries of Athena, nor really any forests for that matter--as the Athenians worked pretty hard to transmute them all into war ships. Luckily no really one cares.

That is not the same for Arthurian legend, for some reason that has not yet occurred to me. One of the most common reactions with T.H. White's The Once and Future King is that there were no typewriters in Arthurian times. But if you want to get accurate about it, there were no Knights or Jousting or (likely) King Arthur either. These Anachronisms are part and parcel of the tales. I've even read a couple of papers (I wish I were in my office and could list the authors) with decent arguments saying that Arthurian legend is so popular because it has no real fixed point in time (then again I've also seen a well reasoned lecture arguing that the Homeric epics took place in England...).

So if you want Pagans and Christians vying for control of Briton, Muslim knights, plate mail armor, an bumbling Sir Lancelot who becomes the greatest knight due to pure coincidence, you're right in line with traditional Arthurian writers. At least that's the way I see it.

[xerxez]

Tom and Falconer, thanks for the insights. You are more up on Arthurian themes than I am. I am reading up now, though.

And the thread is not de-railed, let the conversation continue.

I have always thought Pendragon would be the best Arthurian system, this is from the outside looking in--my fantasy tastes have always been more in the vein of Tekumel, Lankhmar, Tolkien, and REH. And I don't foresee that changing, but I do like to try different things and this game has an incredibly versatile engine.

After running this campaign as it is for awhile, I intend to adapt said engine to a fantasy setting and it will be take some work.

I plan to scan a page or two (if that is not in violation of forum policy) to share the very different take on the Arthurian legend the authors apparently have so you can read it first hand. Typing it would be exhausting.

I don't believe in Arthur, but I have heard he is most likely based on a certain Peredur figure who figures in a Welsh chronicle and Welsh legends.

I do think Beowulf is based on a real king who lived, and that is a poem I have enjoyed reading very much time and again. However, that might pose a difficult setting to run.

As tom has said, I do not intend to make a huge issue of accuracy. Popular notions are fine as long as my players have fun and some will be new to gaming.

Interestingly, my wife, who will not play D&D after an ill fated attempt once, said she will possibly play as she likes that period. I am expecting a much lighter atmosphere in the game than our D&D gaming group is used to. And I am looking forward to it!

[tombowings]

I'd love to know more about this game...but I can't figure out how to read up about it on my own.

So here's a question for you, xerxez: what do you image a session of Hidden Kingdom to look like? How would it compare of OD&D or Pendragon, you think?

[Finarvyn]

Jun 24, 2011 10:42:31 GMT -6 Falconer said:

Like the 2004 King Arthur movie. They really threw out the baby with the bath water, with that one.

I actually enjoyed the notion of a Roman-era Arthur defending Hadrian's Wall, once I got used to the fact that the King Arthur movie wasn't quite what I thought it would be.

While I love the "traditional" King Arthur stories, they always felt a little timeless and somehow unconnected to actual histoy. At least this version felt more historical to me.

[xerxez]

Jun 25, 2011 17:38:24 GMT -6 tombowings said:

I'd love to know more about this game...but I can't figure out how to read up about it on my own.

So here's a question for you, xerxez: what do you image a session of Hidden Kingdom to look like? How would it compare of OD&D or Pendragon, you think?

I will post this soon--there is actually a very long sample game session write up in the appendices.

I think the atmosphere will be much lighter, not gritty at all. Kind of more "fairy tale" in its delivery. I'm still digesting it all at the moment.

I think it would be very ideal for younger kids (10-13) due to simplicity of play and the theme of knights and dragons and castles and damsels in distress.

Chivalry is intended to be a main focus of the game although again the actual period when chivalry flourished is much later.

Fin, I agree about the sense that the Arthurian cycle doesn't feel authentically historical.

I'm not going to change much, if anything, however as I find their premise a little more believable, actually. I guess I was influenced by Cornwell's books, it had a lot of conflict between the pagans and the fledgling churches--have you read these?

As I remember the books were in the hand of one of Arthur's warriors who was pagan and eventually converted and wound up a monk but if you read between the lines he either remained a pagan at heart or had integrated pagan and Christian beliefs into a philosophy that pleased him.

[tombowings]

I can't wait to see it.


By the way, the idea of the adventuring season/questing season isn't completely ahistorical. In ancient Greek and Babylon there was such thing as the campaigning season, a period of time when it was not in good form to wage war, such as during the Greek Olympics (athough there are many examples, such as Philip of Macedon, of kings making easy captures due to attacking a city when their soldiers were participating in the Olympics). This carried into the middle ages, where most battles too place in later spring, summer, and early fall; it was easier to get a army to a battle site when the ground wasn't covered in snow.

While questing doesn't necessarily work with this, winter was seen as the court season, or as it was call in England, just the English Season. Keeping in that tradition, it's a reasonably extrapolation to assume questing primarily took place in the non-winter months.

Similarly, most of Arthur's knight, according to Le Morte d'Arthur, arrived in Camelot for the numerous winter feasts and holidays. There were exceptions: Sir lancelot is specifically mentioned not to be there several years in a row. But for the most part, the idea of the questing season, at the very least doesn't violate what we know from history or Arthurian tradition. It is, in my opinion, a reasonably extrapolation.

[xerxez]

I have been, as yet, unable to run my Hidden kingdom game.

It is still something I am wanting to do very soon. I can't decide between systems and settings so at this point I am trying to figure out how to run that game, Empire of the Petal Throne, and Holmes D&D.

One of these games will have to be a monthly affair.

On a positive note, I was finally e-mailed back by Jon McClellan, the designer of Hidden Kingdom, who is friendly and willing to correspond with me about the game, which, in his own words, did not do as well as wished and would have been better as a computer simulation game.

He did say it was a labor of love still dear to his heart.

I did a lot of Arthurian research and discovered that the oldest Romano-British Arthur legend was in a still mostly Pagan Britain and not near as Christianized as later acothingys, so the game background is actually accurate--as accurate as can be in dealing with a myth as elusive as Arthur, who was probably a Welsh figure.

[kesher]

Figured I'd bump this back up, since I've been reading the game again. As a result, I've also been rereading The Once and Future King, which is a stunning book in its own right. The two mesh up really well. I think a HK campaign run within the atmosphere of OaFK's "Gramarye" would be awesome.

I totally didn't understand this game when I bought it back in my very early 20's (maybe even late high school). It's really not unlike a lot of "domain play" going on in the Old School Ruckus these days...