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Post by revgunn on Sept 6, 2011 23:18:08 GMT -6
Years ago, a friend of mine ran a 3rd Edition game for me, since I'm a Western nut. He's not, so it was a big stretch for him.. Good game though. I really liked the system.
Over the past few weeks, I've been running a game of 3rd, and honestly, I like it the best of all the editions. I ran 2nd Edition when I was about 16, I remember it was like everyone else... a bloodbath. I re-read it before starting this game and I have no idea how I figured 2nd edition out at 16. Maybe it was all that AD&D... My mind could grasp it back then.
These days, I want something a bit simpler. I bought and read Aces & Eights but wow... really complex. Looked awesome but... daunting. I don't want to run something where I'm scared of the system. I had that problem with Burning Wheel. Great ideas on paper, but so tough to actually do anything. I also figured that large shoot-outs would be really difficult in A&8. Savage Worlds looked good too, but for some reason, I had that fondness for Boot Hill.
This time, I started with "Brimstone" out of the Dragon Article. I did do some major revision though. My game seems to have gone more in a "Deadwood" sort of direction. I absolutely love the lack of cheat skills or attributes. No Intelligence or Charisma. The poor players have to actually role play. So far, I'm really pleased with the 3rd edition system.
One thing though. No fire damage. Any ideas? On the High Plains, fire is really dangerous. I'm from the Texas Panhandle, so I grew up in "The West". People out here are still scared of prairie fires, with good reason. I have no idea how to figure out damage for it. Since the "Brimstone" scenario features an arsonist, its an issue.
Comments are appreciated.
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Post by Finarvyn on Sept 7, 2011 15:36:41 GMT -6
Welcome to the boards! I mostly played 1E with some 2E, but 3E has the advantage that it's more "role play" oriented, what with the skills and all. 1E and 2E are really just miniatures battle games and character depth is more left up to the individual instead of the rules. I agree that A&8 is a daunting system to look at. I understand that it's a lot like AD&D with the numbers filed off, but it's still a pretty thick book. I've tried quite a few western RPGs over the years and haven't found much I like as well as Boot Hill. Maybe Go Fer Yer Gun, which is C&C converted to the wild west. I'm from the Texas Panhandle, so I grew up in "The West". One nit to pick, however. I was born in Oklahoma and contend that OK has a "panhandle" because it's shaped like a pan, but TX has no "panhandle" because it's not pan-shaped.  |
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Post by revgunn on Sept 7, 2011 17:18:18 GMT -6
I understand. I dunno why they call it a panhandle either. My Great Grandpa, (Constable of Hale County Texas from 1887 til 1923) always called it "The Caprock". He said he could tell if someone was from below "the Cap" or not by thier teeth... (  ?). I live in OKC currently. We ain't gonna start that Texas Oklahoma Red River Rivalry stuff on here are we? I was really liking this board... LOL. |
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Post by thorswulf on Oct 19, 2011 17:37:55 GMT -6
I know what you mean about Aces and Eights being daunting. Have you tried Coyote Trail from PIG? It is a fairly simple system and has lots of excellent background notes. If you have not purchased the Knuckleduster Firearms book and Cowtown Creator- DO! There's more good stuff for flavor than you can shake a stick at! You can get from www.knuckleduster.com. |
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Post by revgunn on Oct 19, 2011 19:23:38 GMT -6
Don't get me wrong, Aces looks like an awesome system, but... I know that most gunfights involved lots of people on a side, and that looks like it could take a long time. Boot Hill Third is speedy and deadly. I have Coyote Trail. I liked a lot of stuff about it, and it was almost the system I chose. But... one of the players really lit up when I mentioned Boot Hill. Seems it was an old favorite of his, so I went with that. We're kind of an Old School Revival type group too. The Firearms Shop looks to be out of print. I've wanted the Cowtown Creator for a long long time... but, I'm broke. I hope to be able to get a copy pretty soon. I'm just winging it. Mostly from movies, and the stuff I saw growing up. Oh, and GURPS Old West. Hate the system, but they sure make some good source books. I also make and use paper miniatures.... cardboard-warriors.proboards.com I've also been modifying White Wash City buildings to be specific to my little town. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2012 11:37:56 GMT -6
One game that I found to be interesting (and might serve your purposes) is Wild West Cinema by Dave Bezio out of Spectrum Games. The rules are light (d6 based) and, as evidenced by the name, very cinematic. But then I always dug 2e Boot Hill for its war-gamey viciousness. Saying that, I agree with you that the 2e rules, as written, are a bit of a confusing mess. Not too long ago I dug them out and was soon recoiling from the dreadful memory of 'First Shot & Hit Determinations'.  |
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Post by Finarvyn on Jan 15, 2012 14:48:08 GMT -6
was soon recoiling from the dreadful memory of 'First Shot & Hit Determinations'. Awww. That's one of my favorite parts of Boot Hill! What's interesting about early editions of D&D, early editions of BH, and other games from that era is (in general) once you read the rulebook, if you put together a GM screen you almost never have to go back to the rules. The old Judges Guild OD&D GM screen is 3 sheets of cardboard, double-sided without any pictures. You can almost run all of OD&D with just that at hand. It has combat tables, turn-undead tables, monster HP, classes with XP, and so much more. Heck, some of the charts are duplicated. They could have put even more stuff on it!  For BH, you could put together a screen with stats, first shot, weapon damage, and a couple other things and that would allow you to play forever. I should do this! (Mentally adding it to my "to do" list, which sadly is too long already.) Suppose you had 3 sheets of paper (double sided) to fill with Boot Hill goodness. What would you put on it? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2012 17:14:43 GMT -6
Suppose you had 3 sheets of paper (double sided) to fill with Boot Hill goodness. What would you put on it? That's a good question, as a screen lay out would be super. If you are talking the second edition (which I am most familiar with), I would add... * Character Ability tables * Initial and Survival modification tables * First Shot Determination (with Weapon Speed Class Speed Modifier table) & Hit Determination formulas * First Shot and Hit Determination charts * Wound Chart * Weapons Chart * Field of Fire for both the shotgun and scatter gun (along with the Effects table for both) * Brawling Charts * Movement table along with basic modifiers I suppose you could then use one side for whatever Advanced, Optional, and basic Campaign rules you most enjoy; dynamite explosion and misfire tables as example. I guess a reproduction of the price chart might be useful as well. |
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Post by Finarvyn on Jan 15, 2012 20:02:24 GMT -6
Suppose you had 3 sheets of paper (double sided) to fill with Boot Hill goodness. What would you put on it? By the way, as a point of reference, I have handy the "Referee's Screen and Mini Module" for Boot Hill and here are the contents as selected by TSR: Outside, panel 1Cheezy cover art Inside, panel 1Average Misc Characters Chart (NPC's) Grappling Table Punching Table Stunning Chart Wound Chart Inside, panel 2First Shot Determination Chart Hit Determination Chart Shotgun/Scattergun Effects Table Movement Table Outside, panel 2Weapons Chart Wound Chart (repeated) Movement Table Cost of Living Table Misfire Table Note that TSR only used two panels back-to-back, which is a lot less space than JG's three-panel screen for OD&D. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 14:02:53 GMT -6
Curiosity killed this cat, as I hunted down a pdf version of the TSR Ref's Screen and Mini Mod. While I am more impressed with the Northfield and Famous Gunfights mods, I sure do wish I had this screen when I used to play; very handy stuff. I understand the redundant tables (movement and wounds) are most likely for the player's benefit. However, if I were to remake a screen for myself (as a Ref), I would ditch the two repeating tables and replace them with a Weapons Price Chart. If I was going with your suggested 3 panel screen (which is the best idea, imo), I would add the Tracking Table and the Strategic Mounted Movement Table from the Campaign rules. Just talking about this game makes me miss it more and more. |
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Post by rick krebs on Feb 26, 2012 9:19:49 GMT -6
"What's interesting about early editions of D&D, early editions of BH, and other games from that era is (in general) once you read the rulebook, if you put together a GM screen you almost never have to go back to the rules."
There's no fooling Marv with the secrets to the original role playing games. Have an exalt.
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Post by Sean Michael Kelly on Feb 26, 2012 10:13:49 GMT -6
Rick, I'm giving you an exalt just because I miss ya around!
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Post by warrioroffrobozz on Feb 26, 2012 10:34:31 GMT -6
I've never tried Boot Hill, but Chaosiums Basic Roleplaying makes a good western. Actually it's sort of my go-to system for anything that isn't OD&D.
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Post by Sean Michael Kelly on Feb 26, 2012 11:29:26 GMT -6
Of the 3 editions, I prefer the 1st, the 2e seems to be just an edit and mild expansion of 1e so it'll do too!
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Post by Finarvyn on Feb 26, 2012 15:24:56 GMT -6
There's no fooling Marv with the secrets to the original role playing games. Have an exalt.  I get fooled a lot, I just know what I like. What I like is a set of rules that I can know without having to work at it. And welcome back, Rick. We don't see nearly enough of you here. I'll toss an EXALT back atcha! Of the 3 editions, I prefer the 1st, the 2e seems to be just an edit and mild expansion of 1e so it'll do too! I agree. 1E is my favorite as well. Short rules and to the point. |
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Post by Sean Michael Kelly on Feb 26, 2012 15:32:56 GMT -6
...I just know what I like. What I like is a set of rules that I can know without having to work at it. Well said. For me it really comes down to a point of whether or not I can enjoy GM'ing a game without stressing over some rule-lawyer hiding behind his pile of books. Some of the best games are the ones where, quite simply, the books can stay under the table. A few charts on a card, or a "GM screen" and plenty of dice to fidget with. (don't forget the snacks and drinks) ...oh, and you need a fun bunch of people to be around! IMHO, and I wont disparage anyone the fun of whatever game they choose to play, the 3rd edition was about the same as the Gangbusters "3rd Edition" and I'm quite sure Mr. Krebs has an opinion on that... :-) |
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Post by rick krebs on Apr 30, 2012 14:25:42 GMT -6
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules. " I don't need to identify, the author, do I ?
I've had great fun playing the 1st edition RPGs, I don't need anymore. I had fun playing the original Risk, I don't need any other editions.
I'm not sure the world needed another "Gangbusters", I had great fun with the original.
But, if you're playing any edition of any set of rules and you're having fun...great, fantastic. Keep playing and keep enjoying it. But, I may not be interested in playing that game.
I liked the original rules for Boot Hill and played them. I owned the second edition, and played the original version. Not even sure what the difference was other than more art.
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Post by Sean Michael Kelly on May 2, 2012 9:24:44 GMT -6
I have both the 1st & 2nd editions, Rick, and from what I can see, the 2nd edition has little to no "mechanic" changes, just minor expansions, more "fluff text" and prettier pictures. I prefer and use the 1st edition, just because it's so portable and I can fit everything I need on two sides of a sheet of paper. |
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Post by Finarvyn on May 2, 2012 14:11:43 GMT -6
Some of the best games are the ones where, quite simply, the books can stay under the table. A few charts on a card, or a "GM screen" and plenty of dice to fidget with. Exactly. I use those supplemental insert pages in my OD&D as much as the rulebooks in play, and for games with a GM screen I can almost always abandon the rulebooks during play and only access the screen. That's what I like! ;D |
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Post by rick krebs on May 4, 2012 7:33:25 GMT -6
I cut my inserts and made my first DM's screen from then. Of course, that's before they decided to make a DM's screen. Unfortunately, that screen is long gone, so my LBBs don't have the sheets, but I still have my AD&D DM's screen.
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Post by thorswulf on Jun 16, 2012 14:57:24 GMT -6
I recently accquired a copy of 3E Boot Hill, and read it over several times. The combat system with it's counts almost seems like a predecessor to Aces & Eights count system in some ways. In many ways it could be likened to a very streamlined version of A&8's rpg. But it came first!
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Post by Finarvyn on Jun 17, 2012 5:05:22 GMT -6
I recently accquired a copy of 3E Boot Hill, and read it over several times. The combat system with it's counts almost seems like a predecessor to Aces & Eights count system in some ways. In many ways it could be likened to a very streamlined version of A&8's rpg. But it came first! A&8 seems a lot like HM4 to me, which was essentially AD&D with extras. BH3 seems a lot like a blend of BH and D&D. It's not surprising that the two would seem similar, and BH3 would feel like an early version of A&8. |
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Keps
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Post by Keps on Apr 3, 2014 1:28:27 GMT -6
I was a 2e guy through the 80s but recently taught myself 3e and now prefer it. I played several sessions of A&8s with a 40+ group last year and each time the game ran quicker and smoother(character creation can still can take some time). It is the best out there, if you have a dedicated group that loves the genre and puts the time in. Quick scenarios/one-shots/Con games with any mix of gamers I would(and will)use 3e BH. As a player in 3e, you can actually develop your character. Playing 3e is fun. Most of these forums discuss "running" games. Running 3e still has the GM doing the numbers for Mods like a mathematician, my advice there is to roll first, and if the number is close, then do the math.
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?). 
I get fooled a lot, I just know what I like. What I like is a set of rules that I can know without having to work at it.