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Post by kenmeister on Jun 21, 2009 17:19:01 GMT -6
Continuing this DF discussion here, just in case someone has any ideas me & T. Foster don't. Apparently in the Tolkien-ized OD&D books that I don't have, the balrog makes an appearance in the Monsters & Treasure book with 10 hit dice. This makes sense; in a game that follows a dungeon level I to X paradigm, you need a 10 hit die monster to showcase as the lowest dungeon level baddie. In Eldritch Wizardry, the Type VI demon is subtitled balrog, yet it has 8 10-sided dice. Anybody have any idea why they changed it like this? Were there any other stat differences between the M&T balrog and the EW type VI?
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Post by TheMyth on Jun 21, 2009 18:12:58 GMT -6
Continuing this DF discussion here, just in case someone has any ideas me & T. Foster don't. Apparently in the Tolkien-ized OD&D books that I don't have, the balrog makes an appearance in the Monsters & Treasure book with 10 hit dice. This makes sense; in a game that follows a dungeon level I to X paradigm, you need a 10 hit die monster to showcase as the lowest dungeon level baddie. In Eldritch Wizardry, the Type VI demon is subtitled balrog, yet it has 8 10-sided dice. Anybody have any idea why they changed it like this? Were there any other stat differences between the M&T balrog and the EW type VI? I'm shocked no one over at DF noted that the original 10 HD were 6-siders, as were all hit dice in the 3LBBs. (Unless I'm missing something somewhere...) So, the Balrog didn't really go down in hit points...it potentially went up! The change in hitdice/points is most likely an aspect of the variegated hit dice for different classes introduced in the supplements.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2009 19:00:17 GMT -6
I can't answer for the DF'ers but, when I'm talking about the TLBBs, d6 HD are so much a part of the game I don't mention them. I should mention, however, I played OD&D when it was a new game. Thus, my experience and assumptions may not be theirs.
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Post by foster1941 on Jul 1, 2009 14:23:40 GMT -6
I'm shocked no one over at DF noted that the original 10 HD were 6-siders, as were all hit dice in the 3LBBs. (Unless I'm missing something somewhere...) So, the Balrog didn't really go down in hit points...it potentially went up! The change in hitdice/points is most likely an aspect of the variegated hit dice for different classes introduced in the supplements. Supplement I bumped monster hit dice from d6 to d8, and Supplement III (which bumped some monsters to d10, d12, and d20 hit dice) assumed that rule was in use. So the idea wasn't that the balrog was going from 10d6 to 8d10 but rather 10d8 to 8d10, meaning its hit points remain essentially the same (avg. 45 vs 44) but its "to hit" rolls and saving throws become worse, and it's not worth as many XP. As I said at DF, I have no idea why TSR decided to do this (and FWIW the idea of different monsters having different-sized hit dice was scrapped in AD&D, though according to EGG it was going to make a comeback in his aborted 2nd edition).
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Post by grodog on Jul 2, 2009 14:15:57 GMT -6
Has anyone compared different printings of Greyhawk and EW to see if there are any changes in the editions/errata/etc. for the balrogs' HD?
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