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Post by thegreyelf on May 21, 2009 8:18:59 GMT -6
I think he meant Mordor Orcs.
And yeah, it's pretty clear that Uruk-Hai are half-orcs.
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Post by thegreyelf on May 21, 2009 9:49:17 GMT -6
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Post by snorri on May 23, 2009 13:22:58 GMT -6
Balor, the supplement IV version:
BALOR Armor Class: 2 Magic Ability: (See Below) Move: 0 Fighter Ability: None Hit Points: 100 Psionic Ability: Class 6 Once a huge monster, this creature is now nothing but a 30 foot tall head. When the eyes of this head are forced open, all beings looking at it will die (no saving throw applicable).
Better than any Save or die!
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Post by Falconer on May 23, 2009 14:34:19 GMT -6
What, it says "Balor" in there??
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Post by snorri on May 23, 2009 16:33:34 GMT -6
What, it says "Balor" in there?? Yep, p. 21, in the Celtic gods section. I'm currently reading carefuly supp. IV. A lot of fun ("Bes looks favorably upon all gambles and the greater the risk the better he likes it (judge's option). There is a 5% chance that the God will, if really pleased, give the being a luck stone") and interesting ideas for od&d
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Post by Falconer on May 24, 2009 20:48:34 GMT -6
Oh, okay, right. Celtic Mythology. Balor is the name of a giant from Irish mythology and has nothing to do with the Balrogs of Tolkien.
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Post by Finarvyn on May 25, 2009 5:18:47 GMT -6
My 3rd Printing of Eldritch Wizardry actually uses the word "Balrog" for Type VI Demon on page 33. Type VI: These rather rare demons are sometimes known as balrogs, and as such have been particularly described in other works (CHAINMAIL, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, etc). It goes on to list off the powers of the balrog, etc. In the 3rd printing there is no hint of "Balor" yet.
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jacar
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 345
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Post by jacar on May 25, 2009 13:54:58 GMT -6
I think he meant Mordor Orcs. And yeah, it's pretty clear that Uruk-Hai are half-orcs. Actually...no. Uruk-Hai literally means High Orc in one of the Tolkien Languages. The power to create Uruk-Hai came from Sauron. It was given to Saruman after some failed attempts to make "man-orcs" out of the Hill Men and Orcs. So a Hlf-Oc is, in fact, a Half Man/Half Orc. A Uruk-High is a better version of an Orc. John
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Post by Falconer on May 25, 2009 22:43:46 GMT -6
Uruk-hai is the plural of Uruk in the Black Speech. Uruks is an Anglicized plural. The terms are used interchangeably.
Here are some quotes for you to chew on:
"Finally, there is a cogent point, though horrible to relate. It became clear in time that undoubted men could under the domination of Morgoth or his agents in a few generations be reduced almost to the Orc-level of mind and habits; and then they would or could be made to mate with Orcs producing new breeds, often larger and more cunning. There is no doubt that long afterwards, in the Third Age, Saruman rediscovered this, or learned of it in lore, and in his lust for mastery committed this, his wickedest deed: the interbreeding of Orcs and Men, producing both Man-orcs large and cunning, and Orc-men treacherous and vile." --Morgoth's Ring
Also characters in The Two Towers refer to them as "half-orcs" and "goblin-men". They recall a resemblance to Bill Ferny's friend at Bree, the "Squint-eyed Southerner," who looked "more than half like a goblin" in The Fellowship of the Ring. These same half-orcs are the ones who take over the Shire in The Return of the King.
I'd definitely draw a distinction between the Shire Half-orcs, or "Orc-men treaterous and vile", and the Fighting Uruk-hai, or "Man-orcs large and cunning".
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Post by Falconer on May 25, 2009 22:45:23 GMT -6
OD&D and AD&D 1e never renamed the race from Balrog --> Balor. This is a common misconception. This renaming did not happen until 2e.
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Post by thegreyelf on May 27, 2009 13:45:06 GMT -6
Thanks, Falconer. I didn't have the energy to look it up myself . And I'll be d**ned--you're right! I could've sworn that the Type VI in Supplement III were Balrogs that had been re-named Balor (or at least, that Balor was the name of a specific Type VI demon).
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Post by Finarvyn on May 27, 2009 14:08:13 GMT -6
That's often my problem -- I've looked at so many editions over the years that I often can't recall which one contains which information. :-(
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Post by machfront on May 27, 2009 14:26:33 GMT -6
I could've sworn that the Type VI in Supplement III were Balrogs that had been re-named Balor (or at least, that Balor was the name of a specific Type VI demon). You remembered that from the AD&D MM, most likely. "Each type VI demon has its own name. (Balor is a type VI demon of the largest size.) Six are known to exist."
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Post by Falconer on May 28, 2009 7:45:25 GMT -6
Yes, in AD&D 1e, Balor is the name of one particular Balrog (Type VI Demon).
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