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Post by geordieracer on Oct 26, 2010 11:20:20 GMT -6
 I bought Frog God Games' new high-level module for S&W today. Matt Finch has done an excellent job of adapting the Pathfinder original for S&W, incorporating challenging mixed-type encounters and a dark dark background. It's epic stuff, a true test of high-level characters - and yes, of the players themselves. Grand.Epic.Taking on Chaos.Top notch presentation. Recommended  |
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jasmith
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 316
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Post by jasmith on Oct 26, 2010 16:01:18 GMT -6
At $20.99 for the PDF and $32.99 for the perfectbound, I don't think so.
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Post by James Maliszewski on Oct 26, 2010 17:28:09 GMT -6
At $20.99 for the PDF and $32.99 for the perfectbound, I don't think so. Wow, that's a lot of money for a PDF! Is it a very big adventure in terms of page count? |
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jasmith
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 316
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Post by jasmith on Oct 26, 2010 18:59:27 GMT -6
At $20.99 for the PDF and $32.99 for the perfectbound, I don't think so. Wow, that's a lot of money for a PDF! Is it a very big adventure in terms of page count? 140 pages per rpgnow. |
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Post by James Maliszewski on Oct 27, 2010 17:17:18 GMT -6
That's a shame, as I'm actually intrigued by the idea of a high-level S&W adventure, but not intrigued enough to drop that much money on a PDF. |
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jasmith
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 316
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Post by jasmith on Oct 27, 2010 18:13:45 GMT -6
That's a shame, as I'm actually intrigued by the idea of a high-level S&W adventure, but not intrigued enough to drop that much money on a PDF. Yup. I'd spend 32 for a perfectbound product, if it was something really special, or something I was really looking forward to. But I'd have to hear an awful lot of good things about Fane of the Fallen before I'd be willing to pay that print price. With the economy like it is, I'd rather spend my money on Fight On! (an awesome bang for my old school buck) or products I am really excited about *cough* Dwimmermount *cough.* Of course, I also have to admit that Frog Gods knows where I live: "Can the characters penetrate the foreboding Harwood Forest and defeat the denizens of Castle Novgorod? Or will they succumb to the fallen elves and their depraved succubus goddess?"My other concern is probably no big deal, but I kind of have a knee-jerk reaction to this being a conversion of a Pathfinder product. I'm sure Mr. Finch did a fine job and all and in my 3e days, I ran some Necromancer stuff. In fact, the only 3e modules I ever used where from Necromancer. It just sorta strikes me as S&W getting the hand-me-downs, which I is probably a very unfair attitude on my part. |
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Post by redpriest on Oct 27, 2010 18:22:59 GMT -6
Just for perspective, that 32-page, $12 module you (or your parents) bought in 1980, would cost roughly $31 today.
If your parents bought it for you, I hope you were significantly appreciative, since now you know just how much they plopped down for you (in relative dollars).
Now, I have no idea if Fane is any good or not, I'm just putting things into perspective. FWIW, TSR sold a lot of crap in the '80s.
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jasmith
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 316
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Post by jasmith on Oct 27, 2010 20:07:05 GMT -6
Just for perspective, that 32-page, $12 module you (or your parents) bought in 1980, would cost roughly $31 today. If your parents bought it for you, I hope you were significantly appreciative, since now you know just how much they plopped down for you (in relative dollars). Now, I have no idea if Fane is any good or not, I'm just putting things into perspective. FWIW, TSR sold a lot of crap in the '80s. My parents should be very thankful then, that I didn't use modules bitd. And I'm very thankful for RPG books like FO!. I don't begrudge Froggie for their pricing. I do think the print version is priced on the High end and I won't pay 20 dollars for any PDF. I have paid premium prices for RPG items I really wanted and will do so again. If the forums and blogosphere erupt with praise and enthusiasm for Fane, I might would get excited enough to buy the print. ;D Otherwise, there are things I want more, better bangs for my bucks, elsewhere and while I'd like to have Fane, I don't need it, don't feel any real excitement about the product and my imagination would need to be much more fired-up before I'd shell out over 30 bucks on a 140 page module. The whole "...fallen elves and their depraved succubus goddess?" thing helps, though. |
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Post by redpriest on Oct 27, 2010 22:06:17 GMT -6
The whole "...fallen elves and their depraved succubus goddess?" thing helps, though. For whatever reason, Frog didn't update the release. Matt Finch completely re-worked the adventure to remove such silly things as "fallen elves". Anyway, I'm not defending the module, because I've never read it, and I'm only mildly defending the pricing of the print version (I doubt I'd pay $20 for a pdf either. My guess is that it's intentionally high to actually dissuade its sale) as being in line for the page count. If it's a good product, then it's priced right, if it's junk, then who cares how much it costs? |
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Post by James Maliszewski on Oct 28, 2010 9:48:14 GMT -6
Just for perspective, that 32-page, $12 module you (or your parents) bought in 1980, would cost roughly $31 today. I don't recall any modules being priced that high in 1980, but maybe they really were that expensive. Most of the D&D modules I have from the late 80s are priced in the $8-10 range, though, so I'd be amazed if modules from earlier in the decades were more expensive. For another perspective, consider that Michael Curtis's Stonehell, which is a comparably sized product (130 pages), is only $13 in print. I'm sure Michael doesn't have the same kind of expenses that Frog God does, but, even so, charging over $20 for a PDF is way more than I'd be willing to pay, regardless of how good an adventure is. |
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Post by moonlapse vertigo on Oct 28, 2010 10:16:37 GMT -6
the print cost doesn't surprise me, given the production values, but the pdf cost does. A pdf release should be dirt cheap. It's essentially a disposable medium, and, let's face it, easily and widely pirated. The only way pdf sales become attractive is economy. It also allows people who are merely curious about your product to check it out. Priced too high, you lose those potential customers.
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mythmere
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
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Post by mythmere on Nov 1, 2010 8:05:17 GMT -6
I won't get into the pricing, which is Bill's department, but about the conversion/hand-me-down issue:
We're going to be converting modules in both directions - the Pathfinder players are going to be getting converted Swords & Wizardry modules as well. This is one of the ways we can get high-quality art for S&W modules, because the Pathfinder players are effectively subsidizing it.
In some cases a module requires very little conversion, because the way it was written isn't particularly hardwired into the original game system. I did a conversion on the first of a viking-type series of adventures, and it was virtually just a matter of snapping out one set of combat-stats and putting in replacements.
On the other hand, Fane is an example of an adventure that actually required a LOT of conversion. Several of the original elements were fine for Pathfinder, but would have been blah for older players. Also, I kept getting D1-D3 flashbacks while reading it. Not big flashbacks, but enough that I felt like something had to be rewired deeper in the engine.
If a module needs a lot of rewiring, it will get it (ala Fane). In general, I think a good module tends to be good because of its core, not-system-specific elements. Obviously you can screw up a good core-idea module if the implementation is poor. But that's a concern in general -- there are two parts of module writing -- first having a good core idea, and then turning it into a game-module. That "turning it into a game module" phase doesn't actually depend on whether it's a conversion or a first write.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2010 10:25:31 GMT -6
I do hear you--most of our pricing is based on our costs; Fane had very high art and printing costs.
I am doing my best to keep them down mind you--Now that we are doing more books, we should be able to lower things a bit on future releases. For example, the Complete Rulebook softcover will be $21.99 (I think) in print for sdoftcover, and pdfs are $9.99.
That being said, Matt did most of the work for that, and when Matt, myself or Greg does that, we have less outside fees.
Red Priest makes a good point. What did a 144 page module cost in 1980 (when inflation is accounted for)?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2010 10:26:40 GMT -6
ps--the goal is to sell real books; if the pdfs are too cheap, many would not buy them (yes, I know old grognards like us would).
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Post by moonlapse vertigo on Nov 1, 2010 10:31:15 GMT -6
"the Pathfinder players are going to be getting converted Swords & Wizardry modules as well. "
...I'll be curious as to what reception these adventures get from the Pathfinder crowd. I'm optimistic it could be really positive in a "change from within" sort of way, but of course there will be many preconceptions the modules' authors will have to overcome to get to that point.
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mythmere
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Post by mythmere on Nov 1, 2010 17:59:56 GMT -6
"the Pathfinder players are going to be getting converted Swords & Wizardry modules as well. " ...I'll be curious as to what reception these adventures get from the Pathfinder crowd. I'm optimistic it could be really positive in a "change from within" sort of way, but of course there will be many preconceptions the modules' authors will have to overcome to get to that point. I think it's going to be sort of mid-way. The PF conversion guys are doing the work as thoroughly as I am (unfortunately). Spot checks and things are being built in as artistically as I am slashing them out on my side.  (  ) |
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