18 Spears
BANNED
Yeah ... Spear This Ya' Freak!
Posts: 251
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Post by 18 Spears on Aug 25, 2010 13:01:44 GMT -6
I with you'uns, Grimm! I'm looking to buy a copy as soon as it is available.
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Post by aldarron on Aug 25, 2010 14:14:45 GMT -6
What the heck is shark jumping?
Okay, so anyway, continuing my education, I take it that the new publisher means a whole new layout and possibly new art? And are we really talking about something "more professional" or simpy more fashionable (in which case I'd expect to see all that annoyingly repititious border art)?
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Post by chicagowiz on Aug 25, 2010 14:24:14 GMT -6
What the heck is shark jumping? Okay, so anyway, continuing my education, I take it that the new publisher means a whole new layout and possibly new art? And are we really talking about something "more professional" or simpy more fashionable (in which case I'd expect to see all that annoyingly repititious border art)? tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JumpingTheSharkJumping The Shark is the moment when an established show changes in a significant manner in an attempt to stay fresh. Ironically, that moment makes the viewers realise that the show has finally run out of ideas. It has reached its peak, it will never be the same again, and from now on it's all downhill. Based on what I've read from the press release - and given that they are dumping the Mullen cover among other changes - the material updated is already available on the web, and doesn't represent a major revision. I don't think one is really possible, except for the inclusion of wilderness type material. Hence, the possibility of shark jumping.
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Post by aldarron on Aug 25, 2010 14:31:05 GMT -6
Ah I see, well, time will tell.
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Post by giantbat on Aug 25, 2010 16:43:03 GMT -6
I have said this elsewhere but I will say it here; I support Matt and his decisions, I also know the quality of Necromancer Games and feel Frog God has done just as good. The above has me ready to buy a book when it comes out. I'll not let a poorly worded comment get in the way of that. I am in 100% agreement with you on all counts. Additionally, I think the overreactions for and against the misperceived content of my original post are ridiculous and achieve nothing but discouraging free discussion.
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Post by giantbat on Aug 25, 2010 17:12:22 GMT -6
Since my last post I've done a round of the blogs. I had been blissfully unaware of the amount of invective surrounding the unfortunate phrase in the greater community. I certainly didn't intend my criticism to be part of that.
I fully support both Matt and Bill and am eagerly anticipating S&W products from Frog God Games.
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Post by harami2000 on Aug 25, 2010 17:12:29 GMT -6
Additionally, I think the overreactions for and against the misperceived content of my original post are ridiculous and achieve nothing but discouraging free discussion. I didn't see any wording as strong as "ridiculous" on their website and no-one's stopping discussion here, afaik. Feel free to reply to any of my thoughts as openly or as selectively as you wish...
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Post by giantbat on Aug 25, 2010 17:47:24 GMT -6
I didn't see any wording as strong as "ridiculous" on their website and no-one's stopping discussion here, afaik. I'll stick by my opinion about the ridiculous. I don't think that either the statement on the Frog God site or my criticism of it should provoke diatribes. I didn't say anyone was stopping discussion, I said discussion was being discouraged. That's not even an opinion; the resulting discussion has left me wishing I had not said anything and wondering what can be said in this community that won't generate diatribes. You can't tell me I'm not discouraged. Selectively, the only thing I would comment on in your linked post is the mention of "straw man attacks", given that I am not inclined to reply to the rest of the post, or the previous one in which you quoted me, mostly because you did not seem to be replying to what I said as much as words that you put in my mouth and things that "some people" had said.
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Post by harami2000 on Aug 25, 2010 18:22:22 GMT -6
I didn't see any wording as strong as "ridiculous" on their website and no-one's stopping discussion here, afaik. I'll stick by my opinion about the ridiculous. I don't think that either the statement on the Frog God site or my criticism of it should provoke diatribes. So, you're happy to suck up to the game designers/publishers, now, whilst sticking words like "diatribes", "ridiculous" and "overreactions" on other people's posts that you haven't even bothered to read properly, regardless of them being aware of the "amount of invective surrounding the unfortunate phrase in the greater community" that you were oblivious to by your own admission? Excuse me, but you started by accusing Frog God of using words you didn't like to see. Please respect your own standards rather than carelessly repeating their "mistake". I didn't say anyone was stopping discussion, No-one said you said that... I said discussion was being discouraged. That's not even an opinion; the resulting discussion has left me wishing I had not said anything and wondering what can be said in this community that won't generate diatribes. You can't tell me I'm not discouraged. Selectively, the only thing I would comment on in your linked post is the mention of "straw man attacks", given that I am not inclined to reply to the rest of the post, or the previous one in which you quoted me, mostly because you did not seem to be replying to what I said as much as words that you put in my mouth and things that "some people" had said. I put no words in your mouth; it is you who is giving the impression of attacking on a personal basis and deliberately choosing to focus on the negative (as with the above "selective" quote). Please read "If anyone's counting that as a backstab, that's a pretty friendly one vs. others I've seen". Where is that putting words in your mouth? Ditto, "It's certainly reading like some people are willing to take offence" - i.e. I had actually read the other boards - and "that led recently to some rather appalling mudslinging, straw man attacks, etc., surrounding that "Insidious" module" - all that /is/ true... the flag waving was for caution against over-reaction and such a slippery slope rather than constructive discussion. Enough already, anyhow, but I am not your scapegoat. Best wishes, d.
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Post by harami2000 on Aug 25, 2010 18:27:33 GMT -6
aside; "This is the game you played 20 years ago" jars a bit, personally. There may have been some who held out against the tide for that long, rather than carrying out further mix-and-match exercises, but I can't think of (m)any who did to quite that extent. Any here? 1977 -> 1976, too; sorry to nit pick. Best wishes for the ongoing work. Feedback points still stand, fwiw. Hadn't read through again, thoroughly, though.
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Post by giantbat on Aug 25, 2010 19:25:11 GMT -6
So, you're happy to suck up to the game designers/publishers, now, whilst sticking words like "diatribes", "ridiculous" and "overreactions" on other people's posts that you haven't even bothered to read properly, regardless of them being aware of the "amount of invective surrounding the unfortunate phrase in the greater community" that you were oblivious to by your own admission? I'm happy to continue supporting the game designers and publishers, as I have the entire time. I in no way regret or retract the words I have used to describe my opinions of your replies. No one here is under any obligation to read every blog or message board that may pertain to similar issues before participating in a discussion here. That would also be ridiculous. If you want to reference conversations occurring outside a thread, you should explicitly refer to them. Quoting someone's statements and then replying as if they had said things that someone else said somewhere else is not functional communication. Excuse me, but you started by accusing Frog God of using words you didn't like to see. Please respect your own standards rather than carelessly repeating their "mistake". Once again, you are putting words in my mouth. I never accused Frog God of "using words don't like to see".
I didn't say anyone was stopping discussion,
No-one said you said that... I said discussion was being discouraged. You quoted me and said no one is stopping discussion. When you quote someone and write something that appears to be in reply, there is a strong implication that you are in fact replying to what they said.
I put no words in your mouth; it is you who is giving the impression of attacking on a personal basis and deliberately choosing to focus on the negative (as with the above "selective" quote). I have bent over backward to clarify that I don't agree with the people who are angry about this and that I fully support the designer and publisher. You keep putting words in my mouth, and characterize my statements of support as "sucking up". I think the determination of who, if anyone, is "giving the impression of attacking on a personal basis and deliberately choosing to focus on the negative" is up to each reader to decide, if they care, which I doubt.
Please read "If anyone's counting that as a backstab, that's a pretty friendly one vs. others I've seen". Where is that putting words in your mouth? I would say it's at the point where you make your statement about backstabbing in reply to my quoted post which made no mention of backstabbing or anything literally or figuratively equivalent.
Ditto, "It's certainly reading like some people are willing to take offence" - i.e. I had actually read the other boards - and "that led recently to some rather appalling mudslinging, straw man attacks, etc., surrounding that "Insidious" module" - all that /is/ true... the flag waving was for caution against over-reaction and such a slippery slope rather than constructive discussion. I'll wave that flag with you.
Enough already, anyhow, but I am not your scapegoat. I never attempted to scapegoat you and am glad to agree.
I think this is a misunderstanding more than anything else. I'm embarrassed to have participated in such a silly argument and I'm sorry for my part in it.
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Post by blackbarn on Aug 25, 2010 21:41:06 GMT -6
I like the cover, and trust this is a good move for S&W. Like some others have said, the one drawback of the old Necro modules was that they were for d20. If the proposed modules for S&W are similar to those, it is great news.
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Post by Mr. Darke on Aug 25, 2010 21:45:27 GMT -6
Consider that Forg God possibly has access to the Necro library. Also consider that in that library was Tegel Manor and other Judges Guild works. If just one Necro piece or, even better one Judges Guild work makes it to S&W it wil be worth it.
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Post by harami2000 on Aug 26, 2010 2:17:11 GMT -6
So, you're happy to suck up to the game designers/publishers, now, whilst sticking words like "diatribes", "ridiculous" and "overreactions" on other people's posts that you haven't even bothered to read properly, regardless of them being aware of the "amount of invective surrounding the unfortunate phrase in the greater community" that you were oblivious to by your own admission? I'm happy to continue supporting the game designers and publishers, as I have the entire time. I in no way regret or retract the words I have used to describe my opinions of your replies. No one here is under any obligation to read every blog or message board that may pertain to similar issues before participating in a discussion here. That would also be ridiculous. If you want to reference conversations occurring outside a thread, you should explicitly refer to them. Quoting someone's statements and then replying as if they had said things that someone else said somewhere else is not functional communication. A board is not only a series of "one-on-one" discussions but even if you do not understand that it is possible to make general observations in the context of a particular quoted message there is still no need to take personal offense and deliberately inflame the situation by labeling as "diatribes", "ridiculous" and "overreactions". "Assume good faith" is a useful guide and usually doesn't hurt... I'd rather not ignore contributions people have to make to overarching discussion but I'll try to remember to give you a wide berth.
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Post by James Maliszewski on Aug 26, 2010 6:54:35 GMT -6
Also consider that in that library was Tegel Manor and other Judges Guild works. If just one Necro piece or, even better one Judges Guild work makes it to S&W it wil be worth it. I'm not sure this is the case any longer. I'm sure Frog God could get another license with Judges Guild if they wanted to do so, but I'm pretty sure that Necromancer's original license has lapsed. Plus, JG is pursuing its own revision of Tegel Manor and other of its classic products already.
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Post by Mr. Darke on Aug 26, 2010 7:13:12 GMT -6
That may be true but with a past relationship existing I'd say there is a small chance that we could see something between FGG and JG. Even if nothing comes from JG look at the excellent Necromancer library that Bill possibly has access to.
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Post by giantbat on Aug 26, 2010 10:04:57 GMT -6
A board is not only a series of "one-on-one" discussions but even if you do not understand that it is possible to make general observations in the context of a particular quoted message there is still no need to take personal offense and deliberately inflame the situation by labeling as "diatribes", "ridiculous" and "overreactions". I assumed that the things you said after quoting what I said were in reply to what I said. If that was not your intent, that would be where a lot of misunderstanding came from. I think we both could have done a better job on that count. I apologize for perceiving any malicious intent that was not present.
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Post by giantbat on Aug 26, 2010 11:00:10 GMT -6
I liked the quality of the Necromancer products I've owned, and only wished they weren't d20. The prospect of having similar quality material published for S&W grabs my attention. The copy on the site makes it sound like there will be only 300 print copies of the rulebook available initially. If that's not the case, the price list could benefit from clarification. If that is the case, it would be good to know how to get one. Information about preorders, or a mailing list, or something like that would be helpful. The posturing on the Frog God About Us page is a bit thick: Seems out of place with the enthusiasm for DIY in the target market. Since my last post I've done a round of the blogs. I had been blissfully unaware of the amount of invective surrounding the unfortunate phrase in the greater community. I certainly didn't intend my criticism to be part of that. I fully support both Matt and Bill and am eagerly anticipating S&W products from Frog God Games. That's about all I really had to say about anything. It was stupid of me to get into an argument on a message board, and rude to do it in this thread. Apologies to anyone who actually read all that bad noise. Congratulations to Matt and Bill.
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18 Spears
BANNED
Yeah ... Spear This Ya' Freak!
Posts: 251
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Post by 18 Spears on Aug 26, 2010 11:31:05 GMT -6
No apologies necessary, though I commend you both for settling it like adults. I'm going to "exalt" the two of you for realizing the direction the discussion was heading and putting the brakes on.
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Post by zacharythefirst on Aug 29, 2010 6:43:13 GMT -6
I'm actually going to be posting a 2-part interview with Matt and the Frog God guys on my site Monday/Tuesday. I'll post the link as soon as it's up.
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akiyama
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 103
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Post by akiyama on Aug 29, 2010 11:36:43 GMT -6
I'm glad there's going to be an expanded version, but I much preferred the original cover art and title typeface. The new look is okay, but bland.
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Post by Mr. Darke on Aug 29, 2010 13:50:29 GMT -6
While I like the new cover and the thought of a new S&W version I see myslef sticking to Core and the books I have for it. I will get a complete version but I don't know how much I will actually use.
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Post by zacharythefirst on Aug 30, 2010 6:07:02 GMT -6
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Post by zacharythefirst on Aug 31, 2010 13:38:13 GMT -6
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Post by scottenkainen on Sept 2, 2010 11:24:42 GMT -6
Hi all,
Frog God Games has no license to include any JG IP, but modules based on or inspired by JG may be in the works, if that makes sense.
~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
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