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Post by codeman123 on Apr 19, 2009 22:23:52 GMT -6
I know this has been discussed before but i am seriously considering making my next od&d campaign based in the conan world. Some ideas i have been tinkering with off the top of my head are thus..
*fighting-men not wearing armor will receive a bonus to hp not sure what kind yet.. an idea i had was adding con score maybe... or maybe an extra die...
*No clerics..
*Characters can spend 1 hour binding wounds healing 1d6 damage one full day of rest heals full hp..
*keep magic-users as is.. maybe add some kind of bonus to spells if used in a selfish or chaotic manner...
*rules as is 3lbb with inclusion of a a variant thief class...
just some ideas off the top of my head i would like to hear some of your ideas or house rules..
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Post by apeloverage on Apr 20, 2009 2:08:19 GMT -6
hyboria.xoth.net - mostly d20 but does have an AD&D document. There was a discussion on the Labyrinth Lords forums about this, but it's gone quiet. You could have 4 types, which were both races and classes: Savage Heroes would be mechanically similar to Basic halflings, but forbidden to use magic items. Barbaric Heroes would be mechanically similar to UA barbarians, and likewise forbidden to use magic items. Civilised Heroes would be mechanically similar to thieves, but with more ability to try and use scrolls and other magic. Decadent Heroes would be Charisma-based 'seducer' types, with the ability to use magic items. Everyone would get the thief's backstab ability. Fighters, wizards and assassins would be NPC types. WIS would be used to resist insanity from Lovecraftian entities, and attempts by magic items to corrupt their wielder, which they would universally do. There would be no way of bringing someone back from the dead as themselves, but there would be ways to turn them into zombies etc.
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burke
Level 2 Seer
Posts: 45
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Post by burke on Apr 20, 2009 3:21:55 GMT -6
*fighting-men not wearing armor will receive a bonus to hp not sure what kind yet.. an idea i had was adding con score maybe... or maybe an extra die... I'm in the process of reading all of Robert E. Howards Conan stories. And so far many of them have explicitly described Conan wearing armor (plate mail or chain mail). He only seems to be without armor when he needs to be extra dexterous (when thieving) or when there is no armor available (i.e. when held captive) Conan seems to run into the odd evil priest now and then. But they could just as well be Magic Users, so this sounds good. Keeping the Clerics as written (i.e. restricted to blunt weapons) would anyhow be strange... Healing magic seems to be almost non-existant in REH's stories. So this is probably a good compromise. Very nice. If you haven't read Geoffrey McKinney's Carcosa, you should probably do so, many of the rituals he describes would fit well in the Hyborian Age. This might be problematic as Conan should definitely be a Fighting Man, but then again he is also an accomplished Thief.
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Post by geoffrey on Apr 20, 2009 10:27:57 GMT -6
For Hyborian Age D&D, I'd totally scrap the D&D magic system, magic items, and monsters. Then I'd start from scratch.
The ideal way would be to read REH's 21 Conan stories, all the while making notes on the magic, magic items, and monsters included therein. Then I'd simply stat those up and voila! Hyborian Age D&D.
IIRC, almost nobody actually casts a spell in REH's Conan stories. Instead, sorcery consists of magic items and concoctions. I seem to remember glass globes filled with various alchemical powders, etc.
I'd thus probably go with two classes: fighting-men and sorcerers.
The sorcerers would use the exact same sort of magic found in REH's stories. Thus they would not have lists of spells, but rather would be knowledgeable in forbidden lore, ennabling them to find and/or make certain magic items. They'd also be able to summon nasty things.
I wouldn't limit Hyborian Age sorcerers to daggers, though I might restrict their armor.
Also, keep in mind that Conan himself (in "Beyond the Black River") uses a bit of sorcery.
Lastly, most opponents would be men (rather than literal monsters).
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Post by Finarvyn on Apr 20, 2009 11:45:47 GMT -6
For Hyborian Age D&D, I'd totally scrap the D&D magic system, magic items, and monsters. Then I'd start from scratch. Nice! Of course the original REH stories are the place to start. (This is huge, since in the 1970's you really couldn't find the originals without a lot of time and expanse.) Another few resources to consider: * Conan has an entry in Gods, Demigods & Heroes along with notes on the mythos. Kind of high powered, but some good stuff there. * The old TSR Conan RPG. I haven't played much with it, and it's not very OD&D-like, but it might have some ideas for spells and monsters. (For some reason I keep thinking they have nothing solid on spells but employ a "do your own" model.) * The d20 Conan game from Mongoose has lots of source material to look at. Slash out a lot of the 3E stuff and you have a good nucleus to work with.
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Post by Finarvyn on Apr 20, 2009 11:49:09 GMT -6
There was a discussion on the Labyrinth Lords forums about this, but it's gone quiet. And this is my favorite part of the thread, from the 3rd post: It's like we're running in circles! ;D
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Post by codeman123 on Apr 20, 2009 13:46:46 GMT -6
Yeah i have always been a big conan fan so every once in a while i do reread the conan stories. One rule i was thinking of implementing would be that unarmoured fighting-men can opt to 'dodge' one attack per a combat encounter. Thus negating any damage from one specified attack. I have been heavily looking into the LL thread they had some good ideas there. Another idea i have been throwing around is actually building the races based on the demi-humans in the lbb..
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Post by codeman123 on Apr 20, 2009 14:00:00 GMT -6
Just came up with another idea. How about treating spells simliar to what Dave Arneson used to do in his blackmoor games? That might fit well.. hmm.. sorry i think this has become my brainstorming area lol.
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Post by snorri on Apr 20, 2009 14:34:07 GMT -6
In Epées & Sorcellerie, I opted for a simultaneous figthing. I borrow the idea from chainmail as usual and tinkered it. The basis is there:
- The two opponents roll their attack simulteanously.
- The one who made the better roll AND above the AC hits (and roll for damages). In the same time, he parry or dodge his foes attack. [this makes the fight very, very fast & furious]
- If the roll is just equal to the AC, instead of rolling for damage, the foe is send to the ground [that's a reason it works better with 2d6 than 1d20, but are ok]. I borrowed that idea from the chainmail jousting system.
- If both rolls are equal, both roll for damage. The lesser roll breaks his weapon (and both breaks in a tie!)
- Add to this the 'shieldbreak' rule from Philotomy, the "ac=dex or armor" and the "no matter how much it cover, the armor is effective", and you got the full set of rules for sword & sorcery fighting: dodges, parries, loincloth, weapon breaks... with a minimal number of dices rolls.
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Post by geoffrey on Apr 20, 2009 16:15:10 GMT -6
fighting-men not wearing armor will receive a bonus to hp not sure what kind yet.. an idea i had was adding con score maybe... or maybe an extra die... Personally, I wouldn't do that. As burke already mentioned, Conan wore armor (including full plate!) whenever he could get it. IIRC, the fact that Conan wears armor (and is smarter) is mentioned in "Beyond the Black River" as one of the advantages Conan had over the barbarous Picts. This makes me realize that one of REH's two finest Conan tales ("Beyond the Black River", the other one being "Red Nails") all by itself invalidates three common misconceptions about Conan: 1. He doesn't wear armor. (In fact he wears armor every chance he gets.) 2. He is rather dull of intellect. (In fact he is very sharp and is multilingual.) 3. He hates all sorcery. (In fact he uses some sorcery in "Beyond the Black River".)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2009 16:47:26 GMT -6
This makes me realize that one of REH's two finest Conan tales ("Beyond the Black River", the other one being "Red Nails") all by itself invalidates three common misconceptions about Conan This is probably a legacy of Unearthed Arcana and its treatment of the barbarian class.
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Post by Finarvyn on Apr 20, 2009 21:21:02 GMT -6
Not just Unearthed Arcana but the entire "barbarian" stereotype. I think that this got underway with many of the Conan pastiche stories written by other authors who never quite "got" the Conan character. Everyone falls into the same stereotypical trap, as if they never actually read REH's stories (which they might not have, since only the DeCamp/Carter books were widely published for a long time...)
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Post by codeman123 on Apr 20, 2009 22:14:17 GMT -6
You know i might actually just create my own version of the game using od&d as the base... anyone be interested in this?
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Post by Falconer on Apr 20, 2009 23:37:27 GMT -6
What about Hadrathus, Priest of Asura, from The Hour of the Dragon? (It has been a while so I quickly looked it up, and I think he is the one I am thinking of.) Clearly he has “magical” power akin to a D&D Cleric, and as an ally of Conan he and his ilk seem to be suitable PC material. I.e. it doesn’t break the overall mold of the party standing in opposition to evil sorcerers. Regards.
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jjarvis
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 278
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Post by jjarvis on Apr 21, 2009 6:40:38 GMT -6
*fighting-men not wearing armor will receive a bonus to hp not sure what kind yet.. an idea i had was adding con score maybe... or maybe an extra die... I wouldn't give them extra hp for being softer then folks in armor. I can see giving them a 10% (or higher) exp bonus for being a bad-ass in no armor however. If they survive they will get more HP and be more effective fighters then the tin-can men (by gaining levels a bit quicker) if they are cunning and lucky as well.
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Post by Finarvyn on Apr 21, 2009 11:01:59 GMT -6
You know i might actually just create my own version of the game using od&d as the base... anyone be interested in this? I know I would. I tried something along these lines years ago, but I'm not sure if I have any notes anywhere. (Pre computer-crash where I hadn't backed everything up...)
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Post by dwayanu on Apr 21, 2009 16:48:57 GMT -6
Jjarvis's idea of an XP bonus for eschewing armor is one I like. Some historical warriors with potential access to armor went without it (or even altogether naked) because that was the custom of their people. It does not seem to me that they saw any tactical advantage in it, and indeed I suspect just the opposite: It was more "glorious" to attain victory without such aid.
As to TSR's Conan game, that is indeed quite free-form in its treatment of magic. It is up to a sorcerer to take the initiative to seek out secret lore and magically imbued materials, and up to the GM to decide what that entails. As a rule, progress in power is arduous, risky and corrupting. The game as a whole is a splendid work in my opinion, very well suited to its subject. There is a "retro clone" of the mechanics, but I do not recall the name.
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Post by Finarvyn on Apr 21, 2009 18:18:30 GMT -6
It's called ZeFRS and they have a message board here. The rules were written by Dave "Zeb" Cook, so these rules are collectively referred to as Zeb's Fantasy Roleplaying System, or ZeFRS. Apparently it's been released in some form a lot like the SRD for 3E. You can also find some free downloads here.
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Post by codeman123 on Apr 21, 2009 21:37:36 GMT -6
We should make this a collaborate effort amongst all who are interested here on the board! Goal: to create an old school d&d style conan game with od&d as the base!
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Post by codeman123 on Apr 23, 2009 23:31:44 GMT -6
What kind of magic system would you use for a Hyborian age game? I have something in mind but i dont feel like it is very d&dish at all. I like vancian magic and it could fit but it still doesn't feel very conan to me...
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Post by apeloverage on Apr 24, 2009 0:57:47 GMT -6
I'd say that magic comes from summoning Lovecraft-like demon/gods, or from magic items (including books and scrolls) - however the magic items also have an evil intelligence, so in all cases the source of magic is alive, evil, and wants something from you.
The 'wizard' class would actually be someone who, because of their decadent outlook, can use magic items. They wouldn't start with any spells; indeed there wouldn't be any spells, in the sense of powers connected to a person.
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Post by snorri on Apr 24, 2009 5:18:04 GMT -6
I'm not so sure. I can remember some spells being actually used in Conan stories : hold person, move earth, raise dead, and son on. Sorcerers don't use too many spells, and are exhausterd when doing so (like dave Arneson suggested in FFC, according to James M), which is close to 'vancian' magic. I would rather merge clerics and magic-users, remove weapons restrictions, keep the turn undeads, and remove some spells which don't really. Maybe add some rituals from Carcossa, but in addition to spells.
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Post by kesher on Apr 24, 2009 6:42:39 GMT -6
Snorri's right on: Carcossan magic is what I'd use as a template.
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Post by ragnorakk on Apr 24, 2009 14:23:49 GMT -6
Do you want PC magic-users? Magic is never really explained in any kind of blanket way that I can remember in my (admittedly limited and long ago) reading of Conan, it is just something that is sometimes present. OD&D spells in the Hyborean environment doesn't seem jarring. What kinds of 'templates' are present in the stories? Necromancers, Demonologists, Ritualists, pseudo-alchemist hedge-wizard shamans... I'm personally a fan of merging the MU and Cleric spells (in general) and using subsets of the spells available to define the nature of the 'magic user'. Seems like gods and demons are cut from the same cloth in Hyborea!
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Post by Finarvyn on Apr 24, 2009 16:25:01 GMT -6
It's possible that magic-users (1) aren't very high level, and (2) rely on magical scrolls, items, and rituals rather than flash-bang stuff.
1. The low-level aspect fits into OD&D quite well, actually.
2. Thoth Aman had a special ring that gave him a lot of his power. Giving magic-users the ability to cast higher spells by scroll only helps to limit their power. (Perhaps spells of level 3+ could be scroll-only, for example.) As far as ritual magic goes, I dislike spell components in general becasue they slow down the game but they might be really approprate in this case becasue a magic-user might have to quest for something and then spend days preparing the spells.
Just some thoughts. :-)
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Post by kesher on Apr 24, 2009 18:48:26 GMT -6
2. Thoth Aman had a special ring that gave him a lot of his power. Giving magic-users the ability to cast higher spells by scroll only helps to limit their power. (Perhaps spells of level 3+ could be scroll-only, for example.) As far as ritual magic goes, I dislike spell components in general becasue they slow down the game but they might be really approprate in this case becasue a magic-user might have to quest for something and then spend days preparing the spells. That is another excellent idea.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Apr 24, 2009 20:10:04 GMT -6
From what I recall of Conan, combat had plenty of one-hit-kills, and in general seemed more "gory" and "big-hit" than by-the-book D&D combat.
It should be possible to emulate this "exaggerated" style of combat without overly complicating the basic OD&D mechanics. Here's one possibility:
PCs (and medium sized NPCs) roll 1d6, 2d6 or 3d6 damage for small, medium or large weapons respectively. Choose the best damage die, but if multiple die show the same result, sum them. This allows for the possibility of occasionally dealing much larger damage. The big hit effect.
For example, a PC attacking with a two-handed-axe you would roll 3 damage dice. If the results were 4, 4, 6 then it would indicate 8 (4+4 or 6) points of damage. If the results were 6, 6, 6 it would indicate 18 points of damage!
Use additional damage dice for larger monsters. For example, a large-sized Ogre would instead use 2, 3 or 4 damage dice with small, medium or large (Ogre) sized weapon attacks, while a huge sized Giant would use 3, 4 or 5 damage dice. A gigantic Purple Worm might simply use 6 damage dice!
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Post by codeman123 on Apr 24, 2009 21:57:36 GMT -6
I actually got my hands on EOPT today and it gave me alot of inspiration. I have alot of what i am going to use i just need to compile it all out. When i have finished i will post what i have and let everyone take a gander.
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Post by parmstrong on Apr 24, 2009 22:55:21 GMT -6
It's possible that magic-users (1) aren't very high level, and (2) rely on magical scrolls, items, and rituals rather than flash-bang stuff. 1. The low-level aspect fits into OD&D quite well, actually. 2. Thoth Aman had a special ring that gave him a lot of his power. Giving magic-users the ability to cast higher spells by scroll only helps to limit their power. (Perhaps spells of level 3+ could be scroll-only, for example.) As far as ritual magic goes, I dislike spell components in general becasue they slow down the game but they might be really approprate in this case becasue a magic-user might have to quest for something and then spend days preparing the spells. Just some thoughts. :-) Sounds like Geoffrey's Holmes-Only idea which, in my mind, would do an excellent job for a Hyboria game.
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Post by blackbarn on Apr 27, 2009 10:36:03 GMT -6
You know, although Conan avoided deadly attacks whether he was armored or unarmored, I don't see any reason to give special bonuses to armorless Hyborian Age PCs.
When Conan wore armor, REH often described how it saved him from specific deadly blows - I think that would be attack vs. AC in D&D terms. When Conan didn't wear armor he used his wild animal-like reflexes to evade blows - I'd suggest that in D&D terms this was not AC, but rather HP that saved Conan. Isn't one interpretation of HP that they represent the ability to avoid blows which would otherwise be lethal, with the PC gradually tiring and finally getting hit by a lethal attack (i.e. when he reaches zero HP?) Conan just had a lot of HP, I think, and if narrated properly the D&D system would work fine to model his avoidance of serious hits even when unarmored.
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