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Post by captainjapan on Sept 15, 2019 18:14:30 GMT -6
I am reluctant to call this an OD&D post since it gets science fiction "peanut butter" in the fantasy "chocolate", but I am referring specifically to Dungeons & Dragons when I ask:
Can't I, as a dm, put a phaser in an elf's hand and say that they were just marooned spacemen all along? Is this not the shortest path from the fantasy supplement to the planet Vulcan? Many creators have already mixed genres in D&D. I want to know why the most fundamental of fantasy characters shouldn't have led the charge straight into the twenty third century? Maybe someone else has already toyed with this idea. If so, I'd love to hear your justifications or your critique.
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Post by Starbeard on Sept 15, 2019 19:24:44 GMT -6
I'm almost positive that there was something published in the 70s or 80s that featured elves with extraterrestrial origins, but I can't think of what it could be.
I know John Wick's Orkworld game from 2000 has just that, although I don't think there's any alien technology involved; these elves are handled much more like the ancient space traveling elves from Elfquest. Either way, the whole premise actually seems bizarrely offbeat for Wick. Actually, it's just occurred to me that he may have lifted the idea directly from Elfquest, and that's why they seem so similar.
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Post by captainjapan on Sept 15, 2019 21:30:26 GMT -6
Wendy Pini drew some darn sexy elves! I was just reading the wiki article on the 1984 Chaosium game, Elfquest. Apparently, they were using it's release as a kind of beta test for some of the proposed Runequest mechanics.
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flightcommander
Level 6 Magician
"I become drunk as circumstances dictate."
Posts: 370
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Post by flightcommander on Sept 15, 2019 23:21:43 GMT -6
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Post by countingwizard on Sept 16, 2019 7:19:13 GMT -6
I am reluctant to call this an OD&D post since it gets science fiction "peanut butter" in the fantasy "chocolate", but I am referring specifically to Dungeons & Dragons when I ask: Can't I, as a dm, put a phaser in an elf's hand and say that they were just marooned spacemen all along? Is this not the shortest path from the fantasy supplement to the planet Vulcan? Many creators have already mixed genres in D&D. I want to know why the most fundamental of fantasy characters shouldn't have led the charge straight into the twenty third century? Maybe someone else has already toyed with this idea. If so, I'd love to hear your justifications or your critique. I play this way all the time. Jimm Johnson's Planet Eris does this. Kinda. The elves in his game are mostly half-elves descended from ancient star elves. Instead of carrying around spellbooks and stuff they carry their spellbooks in their minds and can mind meld to share with each other. A good OD&D setting has a good helping of Sci-fi to supplement the Weird Fiction. I'm still sad I lost my level 5 fighting-elf in Jimm's Ghost Tower of Invernix sessions. He had an Enfield 1853 rifle with about 40 cartridges of ammunition scavenged from civil war time travelers from a different dungeon. That thing did 1d4 x d6 per shot, w/1 round to reload. Such a f**king fun experience to open up with a blast from that and then draw my sword and charge. He died by disintegration when he jumped through a glowing portal in Invernix. Keep an eye on Jimm's blog for the digital Planet Eris Gazetteer release if you want some interesting ideas on mixing sci-fi with fantasy: cubeofquazar.blogspot.com/Planet Eris is predominantly a Sword & Sorcery setting though; none of the sci-fi/tech stuff can be bought in shops for example. |
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Post by captainjapan on Sept 16, 2019 9:12:20 GMT -6
I just read over the Cube of Quazar, and noted the two confederate soldiers imprisoned inside. Johnson's campaign sounds like a riot. Would people, here, prefer their space elves to be time travelers from the future? Or, ancient aliens?
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Post by Starbeard on Sept 16, 2019 9:31:52 GMT -6
I'd like to see time travellers for a change. I don't think I've ever seen anyone make the explicit connection in a game that elves are Vulcans, complete with Vulcan powers. That would be neat.
You could throw other TOS and TAS races in there very easily as well, but those would be nothing more than roses of another name since really only Vulcans get special powers. Unless, of course, you would like to make your orcs marooned spacefarers as well! That would be an unusual twist.
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Post by captainjapan on Sept 16, 2019 9:49:43 GMT -6
Elves ARE suspiciously intelligent in OD&D. They speak 3 extra languages right off the bat. Maybe they only appear to speak orc, hobgoblin, and gnoll because those monsters are the ancient ancestors of intergalactic species the elves had contact with back in the future! Do any other StarTrek races resemble D&D monster races?
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Post by countingwizard on Sept 16, 2019 9:53:10 GMT -6
I'd like to see time travellers for a change. I don't think I've ever seen anyone make the explicit connection in a game that elves are Vulcans, complete with Vulcan powers. That would be neat. You could throw other TOS and TAS races in there very easily as well, but those would be nothing more than roses of another name since really only Vulcans get special powers. Unless, of course, you would like to make your orcs marooned spacefarers as well! That would be an unusual twist. Klingons have biological redundancy; every organ has a backup, and they have fast metabolism and the ability to regenerate. They are resistant to physical trauma, environmental exposure, and illness. They also have a heightened sense of smell (similar to elvish hearing; can they smell secret doors?). Also greater physical strength. Andorians can thrive in extreme environments (hot or cold), such as temperatures hot enough to boil or freeze. |
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Post by Starbeard on Sept 16, 2019 10:01:47 GMT -6
I'd like to see time travellers for a change. I don't think I've ever seen anyone make the explicit connection in a game that elves are Vulcans, complete with Vulcan powers. That would be neat. You could throw other TOS and TAS races in there very easily as well, but those would be nothing more than roses of another name since really only Vulcans get special powers. Unless, of course, you would like to make your orcs marooned spacefarers as well! That would be an unusual twist. Klingons have biological redundancy; every organ has a backup, and they have fast metabolism and the ability to regenerate. They are resistant to physical trauma, environmental exposure, and illness. They also have a heightened sense of smell (similar to elvish hearing; can they smell secret doors?). Also greater physical strength. Andorians can thrive in extreme environments (hot or cold), such as temperatures hot enough to boil or freeze. Aren't most or all of those features established in TNG or later? I stand corrected though, I realize that without thinking about it I was assuming a 'turn back the clock' TOS era approach. |
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Post by Starbeard on Sept 16, 2019 10:10:13 GMT -6
Elves ARE suspiciously intelligent in OD&D. They speak 3 extra languages right off the bat. Maybe they only appear to speak orc, hobgoblin, and gnoll because those monsters are the ancient ancestors of intergalactic species the elves had contact with back in the future! Do any other StarTrek races resemble D&D monster races? Tellarites would make good pigfaced orcs! And Klingons would be great hobgoblins. Gnolls… maybe Kzinti? I'm not sure if they really map to the alignment and personality though. Gorn could be bugbears, I think that fits better than making them mere lizardmen. Romulans would of course be the drow. I'm not sure what I'd switch out for Andorians, Orions or Edosians. |
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Post by captainjapan on Sept 16, 2019 10:35:15 GMT -6
Just found this tidbit over at Memory Alpha: woof. Ok, so script writer Gene Coons conceived of the klingon and justified them as being reminiscent of the communist super powers of the day. Gene Roddenberry was a World War II vet with a strong sense of totalitarian threats. So, which D&D race makes for the more cohesive (nevermind aggressive) military power?
Starbeard, if I had any doubts that Vulcans were the elven analog, pointing to the "Romulan" Drow counterpart cemented it for me. But, are drow warlike? Starfleet is a de facto military organization, so their adversaries are all either military or terrorist in nature(I'm looking at you, Khan.)
p.s.: bugbears have pumpkins for heads.
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Post by countingwizard on Sept 16, 2019 10:56:25 GMT -6
Just found this tidbit over at Memory Alpha: woof. Ok, so scipt writer Gene Coons conceived of the klingon and justified them as being reminiscent of the communist super powers of the day. Gene Roddenberry was a World War II vet with a strong sense of totalitarian threats. So, which D&D race makes for the more cohesive (nevermind aggressive) military power?
Starbeard, if I had any doubts that Vulcans were the elven analog, pointing to the "Romulan" Drow counterpart cemented it for me. But, are drow warlike? Starfleet is a de facto military organization, so their adversaries are all either military or terrorist in nature(I'm looking at you, Khan.)
p.s.: bugbears have pumpkins for heads.
I feel like Vulcans are the Elven M-U's while Romulans are the Elven F-M. |
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Sept 16, 2019 12:08:31 GMT -6
Kzinti were featured as an AD&D monster type in Dragon #50
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Post by captainjapan on Sept 16, 2019 12:48:56 GMT -6
Kzinti were featured as an AD&D monster type in Dragon #50 From the 5th anniversary issue: ...there lived a magician of such extraordinary powers that he had partial control of several gods. As is typical of magicians of extraordinary powers, he wanted to rule the world. He commanded the gods to deliver to him intelligent monsters that could help him conquer the world. The gods wanted to deliver them in such a way as to kill the magician. They were tired of being ordered around. The specs he listed fit kzinti pretty well... I've never seen the cartoon; and thought you were talking about the xindi all this time. The setup from Dragon reminds me very much of what another omnipotent being, from TNG, might do to teach puny humans a lesson. Except that Q would have zapped an adventuring party out to the farthest reaches of space to encounter their monsters, rather than bring the otherworldly beasts to medieval europe. |
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Sept 17, 2019 14:24:53 GMT -6
I honestly didn't know the Kzinti had been featured in ST:TAS at the time, I just knew them from Niven's "Ringworld." The article was based heavily on the portrayal of the Kzinti in that book and "The Ringworld Engineers." The author also apparently interviewed Larry Niven for the article.
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Post by countingwizard on Sept 18, 2019 7:01:43 GMT -6
I haven't read any of the catman scifi books, somehow my Dad had all of them, but he only let me borrow the Asimovs and Bradburys as a kid. Are they worth reading as a fan of sci-fi and/or sword and sorcery?
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Sept 18, 2019 18:01:31 GMT -6
I haven't read any of the catman scifi books, somehow my Dad had all of them, but he only let me borrow the Asimovs and Bradburys as a kid. Are they worth reading as a fan of sci-fi and/or sword and sorcery? Asimov and Bradbury weren't very sexual; Niven fully embraced the sexuality of his characters. Niven is also great hard sf with a minimum of handwavium. I still love re-reading his older stuff. |
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Post by countingwizard on Sept 19, 2019 8:25:02 GMT -6
I think I've got that story (I collect Asimov). I think some of his later Foundation works had some bow-chicka-wow-wow too; I vaguely recall something on Gaia. I have really enjoyed some of the hard-science fiction books written in the past few years though, like the Expanse. So you guys are saying give Niven a shot at a place on my bookshelf? |
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Post by captainjapan on Sept 20, 2019 23:48:47 GMT -6
Points for elves being aliens:
1. They are arguably more advanced. Maybe they're just more cerebral, but they also have that elven sixth sense. I do believe they may be telepathic.
2. Elves cross breed with humans to produce half-elves while remaining characteristically aloof. This smacks of alien abduction to me.
3. Tolkien characterizes the elves as a race in decline. These elves are not of this world. They must return to some far off place after a set time in order to replenish themselves. They arise from a sea of stars and then sail off toward the setting sun, marking the end of their age.
4. The first elves are equivalent to angels or gods. They radiate an aura of perpetual youth. Young children are probably attracted to this and follow them out, into the night, due to some kind of hypnotic quality. They may even make themselves invisible to adults.
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Post by murquhart72 on Oct 18, 2019 17:57:11 GMT -6
In one of my campaigns, elves and dwarfs are both races of the Alfar species, from the worlds of Alfheim. There are several different "world spaces" like this one, Asgard and the PC's homeworld of Midgard. Some are connected by a wormhole known as Bifrost. The Alfar take their appearance from the book Communion (Whitley Strieber), with elves being pale, large-eyed and slender, the thinkers; and dwarfs being short, ugly and rugged, the doers.
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Post by Finarvyn on Oct 19, 2019 7:55:19 GMT -6
I ran my group through a game where they encountered "red elves" which were basically red Martians from Barsoom. That counts as aliens.  |
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Post by Scott Anderson on Oct 19, 2019 23:12:50 GMT -6
S4
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Post by tkdco2 on Oct 29, 2019 11:59:18 GMT -6
Technically, elves and other Faerie creatures are from another world/dimension. In folklore, the boundaries between worlds were easier to cross than they are today. You can have Stargate-type portals disguised as mushroom rings or other natural terrain. Elven magic may be advanced technology. "Hollow hills" may in fact be elven cities protected by some combination of holographic illusions and force fields. Humans may inadvertently find their way to these places or be allowed to enter them.
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Post by Red Baron on Dec 4, 2019 21:00:35 GMT -6
ELF: Extraterrestrial Life Form
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Post by captainjapan on Dec 4, 2019 21:35:15 GMT -6
ELF: Extraterrestrial Life Form I like it. Consider that idea stolen. |
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