Using period minis

[scalydemon]

Anyone place importance on using minis that would have been available when the game you are running was in print?
Example you are running a game using the Holmes ruleset so minis available in 79 or prior. (Or maybe beginning of 80?)

If you don't use minis I guess this is the wrong thread for you.

[Finarvyn]

It's an interesting concept.

I just barely have enough minis to run a decent game, so I'm not so picky as to when the minis were created. Also, I'm a fan of the nifty pre-painted ones that are being created today (I don't like painting that much) so trying to pick up minis from the right era never really occurred to me.

I guess the exception to this might be that I think I have an old box of Dark Sun minis and, since I don't think they are making any pre-painted ones for Dark Sun, if I ran that campaign I guess they would classify as "period."

[asaki]

I actually just read a very interesting article from Gary Gygax the other day about how they went about crafting their own Chainmail minis: grognardia.blogspot.com/2009/12/1972-gygax-article.html

Aug 22, 2019 4:12:19 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

Also, I'm a fan of the nifty pre-painted ones that are being created today (I don't like painting that much) so trying to pick up minis from the right era never really occurred to me.

I do like a lot of the minis from 3.x, but I feel like their random nature really hurts their practicality. A lot of my friends have a bunch, and I'd say almost 80% of them are really weird one-off monsters that we never, ever use.

...except, you know, for those instances where we plop down some random thing and say "Okay, pretend this is a human."

[Finarvyn]

Aug 22, 2019 4:26:17 GMT -6 asaki said:

I do like a lot of the minis from 3.x, but I feel like their random nature really hurts their practicality. A lot of my friends have a bunch, and I'd say almost 80% of them are really weird one-off monsters that we never, ever use.

...except, you know, for those instances where we plop down some random thing and say "Okay, pretend this is a human."

I get that, which is why I don't buy those minis in the random assortment boxes. I have a couple local game stores which sometimes will sell individual minis, or I shop online. I'd rather pay a bit more and get what I want than get a whole bunch of the one-off variety you mentioned.

Also, some games can provide a decent supply. Zombicide has a fantasy variant with a whole bunch of (unpainted) orcs and such.

[scalydemon]

Doing this exactly as I described would take some minis research time and time/expense tracking things down.

Right now I have a growing collection of older Ral Partha, Grenadier etc metal minis that I paint with testors enamel to use or find ones decently painted already via eBay.

[Deleted]

I hope nobody will be offended, but pretty much all I have are 'period' minis from back in the day. It's the historical forces that are getting the new ones, multi-part plastics that I am really enjoying. So, yes, I always use 'period' minis. Why not? I think it adds to the look of the thing, and my players seem to enjoy the vintage lead on the table.

It used to be the 'custom of the house' out at Phil's that I'd supply the miniatures for games, as he hated getting his damaged. So, I'd do them, which is where all those lead people in the game room come from.

"Chirine makes the most clever miniatures!" M. A. R. Barker to Dave Arneson, summer, 1980. I'll take that one, Phil.

[Zenopus]

DM Carl of Save or Die runs a "Discos & Dragons" con game using only props from the '70s: Holmes Basic (including the chits!), minis & dice (Windmill) from the '70s, dominos for dungeon walls, Outdoor Survival board with monopoly houses for castles etc.

Good King Gary is being held prisoner in the kingdom to the north. Bad Baron Bart is doing nothing to save him. Join the ranks of Gary's Crusaders to travel the world of AHOS (Avalon Hill Outdoor Survival board) and delve domino dungeons to gather the treasure to pay the ransom and have Good King Gary take back his kingdom!

[DungeonDevil]

Sounds like an awesome idea, but, sadly, collecting/painting/basing/storing minis was waaayy out of my (non-)budget as a youth that the concept would be naught but a dream. A friend of mine who intro'd me to RPGs and wargaming had a miniatures collection likely in the thousands (his family's home was absolutely littered with them -- some even trekking bravely through the shag carpet in their living room!), but he was adamant against selling even a single one (the stingy mini-miser!).

[grodog]

Aug 22, 2019 20:07:54 GMT -6 scalydemon said:

Doing this exactly as I described would take some minis research time and time/expense tracking things down.

There is a dates-based view into the Lost Minis Wiki which would help this effort if you go down that path: www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Category:Decades

Aug 22, 2019 20:07:54 GMT -6 scalydemon said:

Right now I have a growing collection of older Ral Partha, Grenadier etc metal minis that I paint with testors enamel to use or find ones decently painted already via eBay.

Now that's some serious dedication!---we never liked Testors BITD, and used Floquil paint sets, as well as Citadel/GW later.

Allan.

[scalydemon]

I find the smell of Testors to be nostalgic, heh
I've never actually tried anything else. Not a big minis painter, but find it therapeutic lately as it is singular in focus.

[Vile Traveller]

All my minis date back to the 80s, so I guess that almost qualifies. They are all metal - Citadel, Grenadier, and Denizen, painted with Humbrol enamels (as I was building a lot of models back then). Many of them have improved bases in the form of coins collected around the world, as some metal bases back then were pretty small and unsteady.

Thst said, I've been thinking about going plastic when I retire, and "retiring" my metal minis at the same time. There's more variety in plastic, especially in bigger creatures like dragons, giant insects, giants, purple worms, etc. And plastics with acrylics are more durable than metal with enamels.

[rsdean]

I’m actually working on such a project; as grodog says, the Lost Minis Wiki is your friend.

Now, in my case, I was buying Minifigs Mythical (Middle) Earth figures before I had the D&D rules, so, although we didn’t use minis a lot at the beginning, I had some around.

As a result of the start with Minifigs, I have been playing around with the idea of depicting everything in my next campaign (may it be soon...) with Minifigs drawn from the Mythical Earth, Sword and Sorcery, and same-period historical ranges (especially Alexander Nevsky and the NS Norman/Saxon/Viking ranges). That would, I think, make for an interesting artistic limitation, and highlight some lesser used monsters as being what I have available. . It would get a lot easier to include the next tranche of Minifigs: Dungeons and Dragons, World of Greyhawk, Valley of the Four Winds, and Aureola Rococo. If trawling eBay and stripping old paint don’t appeal, the current owners of the Minifigs molds have a decent (though not complete) array of figures from those ranges available:

www.miniaturefigurines.co.uk/Catalogue.aspx?ScaleID=3&CategoryID=35

There’s a 1978 and a 1979 Ral Partha catalog available for download here: www.ralpartha.com/index.php/downloads/catalogs, which will be a help if you are sorting through Ral Partha on the Lost Minis Wiki. Ral Partha history is a bit complicated. If recasts are acceptable, there are a fair number of older Ral Partha models available again from Iron Wind Metals/Ral Partha.com.


By 1978 or so, our collections were a mix of Minifigs, Ral Partha, Heritage/Custom Cast/Hinchliffe, Archive, McEwan, and Grenadier for the most part, with a few stray figures from elsewhere (Dragontooth, Garrison, ... ?)

Pictures of various vintage and vintage recast figures I’ve done lately are scattered across my blog:

sharpbrush.blogspot.com/search/label/Aurora%20Project

I’m not so dedicated to recreating the ‘70s as to painting them with enamels...I’m enjoying doing something a little more modern in painting styles with acrylics.

Feel free to PM me if this ends up straying beyond general interest.

Keep in mind, as you do this, that we all used a lot of historical figures BITD; the Ral Partha 1200AD figures (some of which were available before being collected into that range) and the Minifig Alexander Nevsky figures in particular show up in a lot of 1970s collection lots I see on eBay.

[asaki]

Aug 22, 2019 6:05:53 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

I get that, which is why I don't buy those minis in the random assortment boxes.

Right, but I meant that because they were originally released randomly, they usually appear second-hand fairly random as well.

I've been meaning to get into minis, but it seems a bit pricey. I think it would be more cost-effective to just get a small 3D printer, like one of my friends did.

[thorswulf]

A wonderful subject! I started with Holmes in 1979. My first large box of minis was Grenadier's dwarves in 1981 or 82. So that sets the upper limit for me. Many of the older figures are still being produced in some way which is good news but they can be expensive. Grenadier's Fantasy Lords/AD&D line is partially reproduced by Mirliton, and can be purchased in the states via Badger Games. Iron Wind Metals still produces most of the old Ral Partha figures in their chaos Wars line. Miniature Figurines (MiniFigs) has a selection of their older figures available as well. John McEwan of McEwan/Reviresco miniatures re released his old fantasy line a few years ago and are worth checking out. Ok, I'm a shill for John because he is my friend. He has several interesting sculpts like the Little Nessie, Furry Hill Troll, and the Fangwing that just look so so fun it is hard to resist.

[spellslingsellsword]

I have some Ral Partha from late 1980's early 1990's, but I just recently started getting back into miniatures so I've been buying the Reaper Bones and D&D unpainted ones. I like the larger size the newer miniatures are, especially as my eyes are getting older.

[Starbeard]

If I had time and money, I would make a habit out of collecting and using them. As it is I have a small handful of random minis in a few scales from the 70s and 80s, but nothing cohesive. I'd love to build up a collection of flats, but I know the only way that'll ever happen is by printing them out on cardstock.

[thorswulf]

As much as I love vintage miniatures ACTUALLY cast from the 70's the fact is the figure is still a figure as far as I am concerned. Why pay $5.00 or more for a 70's casting that still is being made? You save on the aggravation of bidding wars, broken bits and the repairing of the figs, and other problems. Now some figs are not being recast (legally) and those are the ones I bid on primarily like the old Grenadier Wizzards and Warriors figures. Oh by the way the old Jack Scruby figures are still being cast by a company called Historifigs. I'm not sure if the Garrison Sword and Sorcery figures will be available ever again, but we can hope.

[rsdean]

You probably know that the last Garrison mold owner retired a few years ago, and hasn’t sold the business on. I should have ordered at the time, so what Garrisons I have are gleaned from auctions...

[scalydemon]

The Iron Wind metals line is pretty sweet and affordable. Painting up a Dwarf axeman this eve.

[arkansan]

Speaking of making your own miniatures as was mentioned further up thread, has anyone here tried their hand at sculpting their own miniatures? I'm toying with the idea but it's a bit daunting.

[skars]

I'm surprised more folks aren't talking about 1/72 scale plastics. I know we had heritage, grenadier, and others. But, I would have assumed many character models were taken from ancients and middle ages period 1/72 scale plastic models at the time.

[arkansan]

Oct 6, 2019 9:55:02 GMT -6 skars said:

I'm surprised more folks aren't talking about 1/72 scale plastics. I know we had heritage, grenadier, and others. But, I would have assumed many character models were taken from ancients and middle ages period 1/72 scale plastic models at the time.

I can't speak to 1/72's from back in the day, but currently there is a massive variety of plastic 1/72's and nearly any historical range imaginable is covered by them. There is also a slowly growing number of fantasy sets in plastic 1/72 by Caesar and Redbox.

[rsdean]

Oct 6, 2019 9:55:02 GMT -6 skars said:

I'm surprised more folks aren't talking about 1/72 scale plastics. I know we had heritage, grenadier, and others. But, I would have assumed many character models were taken from ancients and middle ages period 1/72 scale plastic models at the time.

You might assume that, but in 1975 the available medieval 1/72 plastics consisted of the Airfix Robin Hood and Sheriff of Nottingham sets...

[skars]

Oct 6, 2019 19:07:16 GMT -6 rsdean said:

Oct 6, 2019 9:55:02 GMT -6 skars said:

I'm surprised more folks aren't talking about 1/72 scale plastics. I know we had heritage, grenadier, and others. But, I would have assumed many character models were taken from ancients and middle ages period 1/72 scale plastic models at the time.

You might assume that, but in 1975 the available medieval 1/72 plastics consisted of the Airfix Robin Hood and Sheriff of Nottingham sets...

Oh ok, so the scale models and model railroad materials came later. Thanks, for me being a kid in the 80s it's hard to tell what was readily available. I just remembered seeing so much of it in historical minis gaming by then

[thorswulf]

Well from what I have learned from talking with John McEwan about gaming back in the day they mixed 1/72 scale stuff with whatever was available. granted the 25mm figs were closer in size back then, so they didn't look too over sized. A point to consider: A smaller building on the tabletop means more room for other such structures. If you are limited to the size of your playing area the smaller buildings still convey the impression of a village pretty well.

[DungeonDevil]

Oct 6, 2019 9:55:02 GMT -6 skars said:

I'm surprised more folks aren't talking about 1/72 scale plastics. I know we had heritage, grenadier, and others. But, I would have assumed many character models were taken from ancients and middle ages period 1/72 scale plastic models at the time.

I'm a big fan of plastic historical 1/72 figs. I've got some really nice Napoleonics (manufacturer unknown), and am recently collecting some French Foreign Legion 1/72 minis. The ESCI/ERTL FFL figs are breathtakingly well-modelled with amazing detail for their size. The Strelets FFL stuff is pretty good, but doesn't quite have the awe-inspiring artistry of the ESCIs. On the downside, my eyesight and time-limitations don't permit me to actually paint them, sadly, but they're perfectly useful as is. All I need now is a great FFL fort. What are some good makers of Fantasy/Mediaevals/Ancients 25mm figs?

[tkdco2]

Old Glory has 25 mm scale miniatures. www.oldgloryminiatures.com/categories.asp?cat=13

While they're not period miniatures, the Reaper Bones line has plastic miniatures that are more affordable than the metal ones today.

I really miss the old 25 mm lead miniatures from Ral Partha. They used to cost from $0.75 to $1.25 in the late 1980s to early 1990s, which was still within my very small budget.

[rsdean]

Oct 6, 2019 20:45:16 GMT -6 skars said:

Oct 6, 2019 19:07:16 GMT -6 rsdean said:

You might assume that, but in 1975 the available medieval 1/72 plastics consisted of the Airfix Robin Hood and Sheriff of Nottingham sets...

Oh ok, so the scale models and model railroad materials came later. Thanks, for me being a kid in the 80s it's hard to tell what was readily available. I just remembered seeing so much of it in historical minis gaming by then

So, if one is interested in the history/background of the 1/72 scale plastic figures, the key site to know is The Plastic Soldier Review. Here's a link to the overall release history page, which includes a narrative about what companies were active when:

www.plasticsoldierreview.com/ShowFeature.aspx?id=27

It's noted there that Atlantic was in production from 1972, which did include some ancient world sets, which could be useful in an RPG context. However, in Michigan in 1972-1976, no hobby shop that I frequented stocked them, so I was unaware of their existence.

PSR considers itself to be a historical model site; there is a review page of the first round of the Caesar fantasy figures (~2012), but not of anything more recent:

www.plasticsoldierreview.com/ShowFeature.aspx?id=39

As far as the use of scale models goes, I certainly made use of railroad-sourced trees and such, but suitable buildings were rare. Most of the stuff I had access to would have been suitable in a 1950 railroad scene, so didn't look much like a medieval village. Airfix apparently had a single rather timeless thatched roof cottage, but that's another kit I didn't see until later. I suppose some of the stuff from the German railroad kit manufacturers (Faller, Kibri etc.) might have been around and included some archaic buildings, but I recall it as being both scarce and too expensive for my slender means.

Oct 7, 2019 2:45:01 GMT -6 DungeonDevil said:

Oct 6, 2019 9:55:02 GMT -6 skars said:

I'm surprised more folks aren't talking about 1/72 scale plastics. I know we had heritage, grenadier, and others. But, I would have assumed many character models were taken from ancients and middle ages period 1/72 scale plastic models at the time.

I'm a big fan of plastic historical 1/72 figs. I've got some really nice Napoleonics (manufacturer unknown), and am recently collecting some French Foreign Legion 1/72 minis. The ESCI/ERTL FFL figs are breathtakingly well-modelled with amazing detail for their size. The Strelets FFL stuff is pretty good, but doesn't quite have the awe-inspiring artistry of the ESCIs. On the downside, my eyesight and time-limitations don't permit me to actually paint them, sadly, but they're perfectly useful as is. All I need now is a great FFL fort. What are some good makers of Fantasy/Mediaevals/Ancients 25mm figs?

A preface on scale/size: As you're probably aware, 1/72 is a scale in which one inch on the model is supposed to represent 6 feet on the prototype. Game figures have typically been sold by size rather than scale, and have a tendency to end up with exaggerated features such as hands, heads, and weapons, so often look somewhat cartoony next to figures produced to scale. Over a period of time, there is a strong tendency toward "scale creep", in which the size of the miniatures increases, and there is no general agreement on where on the figure one is supposed to measure the size. So, while a 6 foot man in 1/72 scale is supposed to be 1" (or 25mm) tall, later miniatures ranges labelled "25mm" grew and grew, until today an Airfix Robin Hood figure barely comes to the waist of a new model Reaper Bones miniature (notionally 25mm, actually 35+). So, while some variation in human height is ok, how much is a matter of taste and suspension of disbelief. Monsters are usually more flexible, and I use some Bones as ogres and the like in with my 1/72 collection.

So, when you say "25mm" figures, I have to ask whether you are interested in current production extra-heroic figures standing 32-35mm tall, or whether you are interested in the "true 25mm" end of the spectrum, which is mostly represented by stuff sculpted in decades past. In between are some 28mm lines (generally scaled to consider that the "25mm" was intended to be from feet to eyes), which can mix pretty easily with old 25s, but which are starting to look a little petite next to Reaper's latest.

In old 25s still in production, there are the Ral Partha figures:

www.ironwindmetals.com/store/index.php

These have been the mainstay of my gaming collection for decades, but they do show a fair amount of scale creep across the range.

Mirliton from Italy has the old Grenadier molds:

www.mirliton.it/fantasy-25-28mm/fantasy-classic

Partizan Press owns the old Minifig molds, for a real blast from the past:

www.miniaturefigurines.co.uk/Catalogue.aspx?ScaleID=3&CategoryID=35

Mike Thomas, doing business as Classic Miniatures, has some of the old Heritage molds:

classicminiatures.net/info/

If puddling molten metal strikes your fancy, the earliest series of Prince August fantasy molds (molds 651-670 inclusive), are "true 25mm":

shop.princeaugust.ie/25mm-scale-fantasy-armies-classic-moulds/?sort=featured&page=1

If you extend to 28mm, there are a number of nice ranges.

I haven't tried Otherworld Miniatures, but they have a deliberate "retro" flavor:

otherworldminiatures.co.uk

The Sensible Shoes range from Oathsworn Miniatures are nice 28s, mostly adventuring women in practical dress:

www.oathswornminiatures.co.uk/c/4555399/1/sensible-shoes.html

Later in my miniatures life, although still a long time ago, my FLGS carried Metal Magic figures from Germany. Midlam has a lot of their molds (catalog numbers starting with a C, like the C1003C on the first page, at least today). I'm not sure how their more recent stuff sizes out; all of the recent ones I have from them are halflings...

www.midlamminiatures.co.uk/

(There's a thread going on the lead Adventure Forum with someone using a bunch of Metal Magic figures for a Rangers of Shadow Deep game:
leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=119967.0 )

[skars]

Oct 13, 2019 5:07:41 GMT -6 rsdean said:

Oct 6, 2019 20:45:16 GMT -6 skars said:

Oh ok, so the scale models and model railroad materials came later. Thanks, for me being a kid in the 80s it's hard to tell what was readily available. I just remembered seeing so much of it in historical minis gaming by then

So, if one is interested in the history/background of the 1/72 scale plastic figures, the key site to know is The Plastic Soldier Review. Here's a link to the overall release history page, which includes a narrative about what companies were active when:

www.plasticsoldierreview.com/ShowFeature.aspx?id=27

It's noted there that Atlantic was in production from 1972, which did include some ancient world sets, which could be useful in an RPG context. However, in Michigan in 1972-1976, no hobby shop that I frequented stocked them, so I was unaware of their existence.

PSR considers itself to be a historical model site; there is a review page of the first round of the Caesar fantasy figures (~2012), but not of anything more recent:

www.plasticsoldierreview.com/ShowFeature.aspx?id=39

As far as the use of scale models goes, I certainly made use of railroad-sourced trees and such, but suitable buildings were rare. Most of the stuff I had access to would have been suitable in a 1950 railroad scene, so didn't look much like a medieval village. Airfix apparently had a single rather timeless thatched roof cottage, but that's another kit I didn't see until later. I suppose some of the stuff from the German railroad kit manufacturers (Faller, Kibri etc.) might have been around and included some archaic buildings, but I recall it as being both scarce and too expensive for my slender means.

Oct 7, 2019 2:45:01 GMT -6 DungeonDevil said:

I'm a big fan of plastic historical 1/72 figs. I've got some really nice Napoleonics (manufacturer unknown), and am recently collecting some French Foreign Legion 1/72 minis. The ESCI/ERTL FFL figs are breathtakingly well-modelled with amazing detail for their size. The Strelets FFL stuff is pretty good, but doesn't quite have the awe-inspiring artistry of the ESCIs. On the downside, my eyesight and time-limitations don't permit me to actually paint them, sadly, but they're perfectly useful as is. All I need now is a great FFL fort. What are some good makers of Fantasy/Mediaevals/Ancients 25mm figs?

A preface on scale/size: As you're probably aware, 1/72 is a scale in which one inch on the model is supposed to represent 6 feet on the prototype. Game figures have typically been sold by size rather than scale, and have a tendency to end up with exaggerated features such as hands, heads, and weapons, so often look somewhat cartoony next to figures produced to scale. Over a period of time, there is a strong tendency toward "scale creep", in which the size of the miniatures increases, and there is no general agreement on where on the figure one is supposed to measure the size. So, while a 6 foot man in 1/72 scale is supposed to be 1" (or 25mm) tall, later miniatures ranges labelled "25mm" grew and grew, until today an Airfix Robin Hood figure barely comes to the waist of a new model Reaper Bones miniature (notionally 25mm, actually 35+). So, while some variation in human height is ok, how much is a matter of taste and suspension of disbelief. Monsters are usually more flexible, and I use some Bones as ogres and the like in with my 1/72 collection.

So, when you say "25mm" figures, I have to ask whether you are interested in current production extra-heroic figures standing 32-35mm tall, or whether you are interested in the "true 25mm" end of the spectrum, which is mostly represented by stuff sculpted in decades past. In between are some 28mm lines (generally scaled to consider that the "25mm" was intended to be from feet to eyes), which can mix pretty easily with old 25s, but which are starting to look a little petite next to Reaper's latest.

In old 25s still in production, there are the Ral Partha figures:

www.ironwindmetals.com/store/index.php

These have been the mainstay of my gaming collection for decades, but they do show a fair amount of scale creep across the range.

Mirliton from Italy has the old Grenadier molds:

www.mirliton.it/fantasy-25-28mm/fantasy-classic

Partizan Press owns the old Minifig molds, for a real blast from the past:

www.miniaturefigurines.co.uk/Catalogue.aspx?ScaleID=3&CategoryID=35

Mike Thomas, doing business as Classic Miniatures, has some of the old Heritage molds:

classicminiatures.net/info/

If puddling molten metal strikes your fancy, the earliest series of Prince August fantasy molds (molds 651-670 inclusive), are "true 25mm":

shop.princeaugust.ie/25mm-scale-fantasy-armies-classic-moulds/?sort=featured&page=1

If you extend to 28mm, there are a number of nice ranges.

I haven't tried Otherworld Miniatures, but they have a deliberate "retro" flavor:

otherworldminiatures.co.uk

The Sensible Shoes range from Oathsworn Miniatures are nice 28s, mostly adventuring women in practical dress:

www.oathswornminiatures.co.uk/c/4555399/1/sensible-shoes.html

Later in my miniatures life, although still a long time ago, my FLGS carried Metal Magic figures from Germany. Midlam has a lot of their molds (catalog numbers starting with a C, like the C1003C on the first page, at least today). I'm not sure how their more recent stuff sizes out; all of the recent ones I have from them are halflings...

www.midlamminiatures.co.uk/

(There's a thread going on the lead Adventure Forum with someone using a bunch of Metal Magic figures for a Rangers of Shadow Deep game:
leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=119967.0 )

Heroic 25mm scale or 28mm has become the "standard" due to games workshop models pushing the already exaggerated 25mm scale from 1/72 scale which compared to their parters comes in at closer to 20mm.

But as you correctly point out that sliding scale is much closer to 35mm these days.

I mix and match personally and use a variety of scales but I really like 1/72 for fantasy games

[rsdean]

Oct 14, 2019 17:23:38 GMT -6 skars said:

I mix and match personally and use a variety of scales but I really like 1/72 for fantasy games

1/72 scale feels like a different thread, but miscellaneous pictures of the family efforts are scattered around my blog:

sharpbrush.blogspot.com/search/label/1%2F72%20scale%20plastic

Got any of your stuff online?