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Post by delta on Jul 20, 2018 10:01:47 GMT -6
At the moment I'm investigating the relation between Mike Carr's "Fight in the Skies" (FITS) game and the OD&D Vol-3 "Battle in the Skies" (BITS) rules which reference it. I've managed to track down rules to the later (TSR 1982) "Dawn Patrol" revision, but not FITS itself.
If someone does have the original (pre-D&D) FITS rules, I'm wondering: what are the major differences between its basic rules, and those in Dawn Patrol? In particular: Did FITS have the same sequence of play, and "tailing" rules (which uses a competing card mechanic and alters otherwise rolled initiative order)?
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Post by Finarvyn on Jul 21, 2018 5:34:50 GMT -6
I know I have a copy of Dawn Patrol, but I'll have to look around to see if I still have FITS. (I would guess so, because I rarely get rid of old TSR stuff, but I have a friend who loves aerial combat and it's possible he "borrowed" it...)
It's been too long since I've played either game, and I wouldn't trust my memory on this stuff, but my recollection is that they were very similar in terms of their rules. I think I read somewhere that Dawn Patrol is essentially "7E FITS."
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Post by Finarvyn on Jul 28, 2018 13:50:02 GMT -6
Irony. I found my copy of FitS, but not my Dawn Patrol. That means I can't compare them yet, but I can give some info about FitS. My FitS boxed set looks like the 1979 TSR version, but not pre-OD&D so it may not help much.  This puzzles me a little, because I'm sure that a friend and I played this stuff prior to '79. It's possible that I have his copy and he has mine. I'll continue to search, on the off chance that I have both his and my stuff. That happens sometimes and we haven't played in quite a while so I'm not sure who has what at the moment. It's a 36-page booklet. The basic rules can be found on pages 1-8, optional rules pages 9-24, historical commentary on page 24, and appendices pages 25-36. If that sounds different enough from Dawn Patrol, feel free to ask follow-up questions and I'll see what I can answer. |
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Post by delta on Jul 28, 2018 16:12:31 GMT -6
Thanks a bunch for looking that up! I have a 1982 Dawn Patrol ruleset with: Basic Rules p. 2-13, Advanced Rules p. 14-28, Appendices p. 28-33 (Historical Commentary here is Appendix G, p. 30-31). Note that's 32 paper pages, with the inside back cover marked as p. 33. Also came (I believe) with another 32-page removable insert of charts and cards. So certainly different formatting, at least.
The two biggest things I'm wondering about are: (1) This game uses 2d6 rolls as the basis for initiative, and (2) There's a "tailing" rule using included decks of cards. Specifically: There's a 64-card deck of maneuvers; in the Basic Game the tailee chooses one, the tailer chooses from 8-11 (depending on range), and if one matches the tailee, they have successfully predicted their movement. Then the Advanced Game has an "optional" variation: a separate 16-card deck that classifies maneuvers in broad categories; here tailer picks 1-3 of these categories, and if any include the manuever of the tailee, they have successfully followed.
My gut says that's a likely thing to be different (what with the fancy card-decks and all). So I'm wondering if the earlier FITS had that same tailing rule, if it was a post-D&D later addition?
Regarding D&D aerial combat, why was the "simultaneous written orders" picked? It's very different from Dawn Patrol (and, when I tested it, pretty poorly suited for melee-type monsters that need to make actual contact to attack).
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Post by coffee on Aug 16, 2018 6:59:39 GMT -6
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Post by delta on Aug 16, 2018 23:00:43 GMT -6
Here's a comparison of 4th and 6th edition FITS, from BoardGameGeek: Right, I did see that previously. The fact that the 1971 edition also has the "maneuver cards" is suggestive that the turn sequence, tailing rules, etc., are the same. I'd still love to see it explicitly from the rulebook, though. Thanks for the reminder! |
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Post by kesher on Aug 17, 2018 8:16:58 GMT -6
Hey there!
I also have a copy of FitS, though not DP. I think my copy of FitS is a pretty early edition. I should be able to take a look a bit later today and see if I can help address your questions...
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Post by delta on Aug 17, 2018 9:00:50 GMT -6
Hey there! I also have a copy of FitS, though not DP. I think my copy of FitS is a pretty early edition. I should be able to take a look a bit later today and see if I can help address your questions... That would be so excellent, thank you! Fundamentally I'm wondering if the turn sequence, including dicing and tailing, is the same (attached turn sequence from 1982 Dawn Patrol rules):  |
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Post by kesher on Aug 19, 2018 22:56:40 GMT -6
Alright. Looks like I have the 5th edition. Which, I have to say, could use a nice sequenced list like that... :-P
Unfortunately, it doesn't have one in either the rulebook or the included reference sheets. I hunted through the rules, however, and as far as I can tell, it uses the same general sequence. There's no mention of anyone needing to announce any firing or tailing, maybe because it seems like the obvious thing to do.
Hope that helps!
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Post by delta on Aug 20, 2018 9:16:29 GMT -6
Alright. Looks like I have the 5th edition. Which, I have to say, could use a nice sequenced list like that... :-P Unfortunately, it doesn't have one in either the rulebook or the included reference sheets. I hunted through the rules, however, and as far as I can tell, it uses the same general sequence. There's no mention of anyone needing to announce any firing or tailing, maybe because it seems like the obvious thing to do. Hope that helps! Interesting, thank you! Let me just follow up on one detail here: The rules for firing in Dawn Patrol are that at the time of the move, you can only fire at someone who moved before you; otherwise you can fire at the end of the turn, but only at people who moved later (assuming they moved into your field of fire). E.g.: Players A, B, C, D move in that order. - Player A moves and cannot have any choice to fire.
- Player B moves and only has an option to fire at A.
- Player C moves and can opt to fire at A or B.
- Player D moves and can fire at any of A, B, or C.
- At turn end, if in view and not otherwise firing, players can fire at late-movers: A at B, C, D; B at C, D; C at D; no such option for D.
Is that same firing limitation implied in Fight in the Skies? Or is it possibly simpler, in that at turn-end anyone fires at anyone they can see? |
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This puzzles me a little, because I'm sure that a friend and I played this stuff prior to '79. It's possible that I have his copy and he has mine. I'll continue to search, on the off chance that I have both his and my stuff. That happens sometimes and we haven't played in quite a while so I'm not sure who has what at the moment.
