|
|
Post by Finarvyn on Apr 18, 2018 4:42:09 GMT -6
I asked Jim Ward a question about this, but he hasn't gotten back to me yet so I thought I'd toss it in here to see if any TSR scholars had the answer.
I haven't taken the time to order publications properly, but I look at the early TSR products (Trireme, Tractics, Chainmail, Warriors of Mars, OD&D and its supplements, Swords & Spells, Boot Hill, Cavaliers & Roundheads, etc) and most of them are in the half-size pamphlet format which we all seem to love. Then, in the middle of the list we find METAMORPHOSIS ALPHA in a larger-sized format. (Classic Warfare, too.) Why is that?
I would have loved to see MA in a smaller book format instead of larger. Anyone know why TSR didn't do it the same as the others?
|
|
|
|
Post by oakesspalding on Apr 18, 2018 6:31:05 GMT -6
Cheaper to produce in terms if words per dollar?
|
|
|
|
Post by delta on Apr 18, 2018 6:42:26 GMT -6
Not answering the question, but an aside: I've found it useful to use the publishing term "Digest size" when discussing and researching these. |
|
|
|
Post by Finarvyn on Apr 18, 2018 8:11:46 GMT -6
You're right. I have heard the term "digest size" used often and like it. Much better than half-size, which sounds like a halfling.  I have a strange fascination with digest size rulebooks. Even the 5th Age Dragonlance SAGA rules, which I might not have looked at if they had been regular size. |
|
|
|
Post by grodog on Apr 18, 2018 8:35:17 GMT -6
I haven't taken the time to order publications properly, but I look at the early TSR products (Trireme, Tractics, Chainmail, Warriors of Mars, OD&D and its supplements, Swords & Spells, Boot Hill, Cavaliers & Roundheads, etc) and most of them are in the half-size pamphlet format which we all seem to love. Then, in the middle of the list we find METAMORPHOSIS ALPHA in a larger-sized format. (Classic Warfare, too.) Why is that? I would have loved to see MA in a smaller book format instead of larger. Anyone know why TSR didn't do it the same as the others? I don't know the reasons why some games were digest-sized and some 8.5"x11"-sized, Marv, but offer the observation that TSR published a number of other rules in the larger format, too: Field Regulations, EPT (although comb-bound like Classic Warfare), and Valley Forge immediately come to mind, but there were likely others too. You might also ask Paul Stormberg, Jon Peterson, and Rob Kuntz to see if they recall hearing any reasoning behind the size formats. Allan. |
|
|
|
Post by Finarvyn on Apr 18, 2018 9:09:38 GMT -6
Great point, Allan. I totally forgot about EPT and Valley Forge being in the larger format (and never owned Field Regulations so had no idea what its format might be). It must somehow come down to page count. EPT, for example, was a large enough rules set that it would have filled quite a few digest-sized booklets.
|
|
|
|
Post by talysman on Apr 18, 2018 9:37:34 GMT -6
I have no inside knowledge, but my guess is that it had to do with moving into a mass market. You didn't see a lot of digest-sized booklets in mainstream bookstores back then. It was mostly a format for self-published and hobbyist markets: local history, poetry, miniature design tutorials for dollhouse or model train layouts, and of course miniature wargames. Paperback hobbyist or game books were more likely to be in the full-size format.
You'll notice that Holmes Basic is also in the same format, with the box designed to fit. The AD&D hardbacks are larger, but also make sense as an attempt to go mass market.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vile Traveller on Apr 18, 2018 9:57:03 GMT -6
You'll notice that Holmes Basic is also in the same format, with the box designed to fit. Holmes was US Letter, or 8.5" x 11", not digest-sized (which is 8.25" x 5.5"). The bigger size of 9" x 6" is US Trade, but that term is also used for other sizes of similar proportions. Book binding is a bit arcane ... |
|
|
|
Post by DungeonDevil on Apr 18, 2018 9:59:08 GMT -6
Interesting topic!
Even obscurities, like Space Quest, are the classic "digest" format.
|
|
|
|
Post by Finarvyn on Apr 18, 2018 13:05:11 GMT -6
Okay, so I did a crappy job of research which may or may not help the discussion. I tracked down a partial list of TSR products pre-AD&D with publication dates. (I see that Divine Right isn't on my list, and maybe some others.) If I was more resourceful, I'd try to organize by month and get the list reordered a little better.
Chainmail (Guidon; 1971; pamphlet later reprinted by TSR)
Cavaliers & Roundheads (TSR; 1973; pamphlet)
Dungeons & Dragons (TSR; 1974; pamphlet boxed set)
Warriors of Mars (TSR; 1974; pamphlet)
Panzer Warfare (TSR; 1975; pamphlet)
Empire of the Petal Throne (TSR; 1975; full-sized boxed set)
Greyhawk (TSR; 1975; pamphlet)
Blackmoor (TSR; 1975; pamphlet)
Boot Hill (TSR; 1975; pamphlet)
Dungeon! (TSR; 1975; full-sized boxed set)
War of Wizards (TSR; 1975; full-sized boxed set)
Star Probe (TSR; 1975; pamphlet)
Tricolor (TSR; 1975; pamphlet)
Classic Warfare (TSR; 1975; full-sized)
Fight in the Skies (TSR; 1975; boxed set)
Tractics (TSR; 1975; pamphlet boxed set)
Eldritch Wizardry (TSR; 1976; pamphlet)
Metamorphosis Alpha (TSR; 1976; full-sized)
Valley Forge (TSR; 1976; full-sized)
Gods, Demi-gods & Heroes (TSR; 1976; pamphlet)
Lankhmar (TSR; 1976; boxed set)
Little Big Horn (TSR; 1976; boxed set)
Holmes Basic (TSR; 1977; full-sized boxed set)
Star Empires (TSR; 1977; pamphlet)
AD&D Monster Manual (TSR; 1977; full-sized hardback)
No real pattern that I can detect here. Early publications are all pamphlet sized, but EPT and MA were clearly larger. The wargames came in full-sized boxes but the rulebooks were probably smaller. (Lankhmar has a full-sized rulebook. Dungeon, I think, was pamphlet sized rules.)
|
|
|
|
Post by talysman on Apr 18, 2018 13:43:06 GMT -6
You'll notice that Holmes Basic is also in the same format, with the box designed to fit. Holmes was US Letter, or 8.5" x 11", not digest-sized (which is 8.25" x 5.5"). The bigger size of 9" x 6" is US Trade, but that term is also used for other sizes of similar proportions. Book binding is a bit arcane ... Sorry I wasn't clear, but I meant that Holmes was in the same size as Metamorphosis Alpha. |
|
|
|
Post by talysman on Apr 18, 2018 14:02:08 GMT -6
No real pattern that I can detect here. Early publications are all pamphlet sized, but EPT and MA were clearly larger. The wargames came in full-sized boxes but the rulebooks were probably smaller. (Lankhmar has a full-sized rulebook. Dungeon, I think, was pamphlet sized rules.) One thing I notice about EPT is that it's 114 pages. There's a limit to how many pages a digest-sized staple bound booklet can have. Greyhawk (68 pages) seems close to the limit; the copy I have had problems with sheets coming loose in the middle. I think I've seen 96 pages as being the practical limit. EPT may have just been unprintable in that format. |
|
|
|
Post by Finarvyn on Apr 18, 2018 15:19:04 GMT -6
Agreed, but I'm not sure that METAMORPHOSIS ALPHA is nearly that many pages. That's part of what got me asking my original question.
|
|
|
|
Post by talysman on Apr 18, 2018 17:47:23 GMT -6
Agreed, but I'm not sure that METAMORPHOSIS ALPHA is nearly that many pages. That's part of what got me asking my original question. Yes, but I still think Metamorphosis Alpha was about the time TSR was thinking about mass market potential. As Piper mentioned above, digest booklets were something a hobbyist publisher could assemble themselves or use a low-end print shop for (I don't think there were many "copy shops", as we understand the term, back then.) If they switched to a higher-end print shop because they were expanding, full-size booklets may have become more viable. Or maybe by the time MA came out, the tech was becoming cheaper and better quality, so they were able to switch. Notice MA isn't just a bigger format. It has better illustrations, a more professional-looking two-column layout, and a full-color cover. I think it's clear they changed printers, or the tech got cheaper, or both. One thing I notice about EPT is that it's 114 pages. There's a limit to how many pages a digest-sized staple bound booklet can have. Greyhawk (68 pages) seems close to the limit; the copy I have had problems with sheets coming loose in the middle. I think I've seen 96 pages as being the practical limit. EPT may have just been unprintable in that format. When I was doing some work for John Adams/BHP he bought a special stapler and (according to him) he could do digest size up to > 80 pages. I don't recall the exact figure, 86 comes to mind but I don't want to swear to it in a court of law. As I recall, I got the 96-page figure from one of the POD websites. There's a limit on how thick a POD digest-sized staple bound booklet can be. Just not sure what it is... |
|
