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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2017 16:54:45 GMT -6
What do you sell, O ye merchants? Richly your wares are displayed. Turbans of crimson and silver, Tunics of purple brocade, Mirrors with panels of amber, Daggers with handles of jade.- Sarojini NaiduBuilding Sanctuary: Adventures in the Rankan EmpireThis thread is supposed to be about tinkering, in ways big and small, with the classic "Thieves' World" setting, as created by Robert Asprin and his colleagues. For more "crunchy" info, please scroll down.Personal BackstoryMy curriculum as a DM reads pretty much like that of anyone else who is really, really into D&D: When I started to take this hobby seriously as an adult, I spent a lot of time with published settings - in my case, mainly "Ravenloft" and Dave Arneson's world of "Blackmoor". After that, I eventually moved on towards creating a first "a-bit-more-elaborated-than-perhaps-average" home setting ("The World of Meleon"), and a my games there, for a few years. - What now is perhaps a slight departure from the usual progression is that I consciously decided to leave my home setting aside, and to return a published world. The reasoning behind this move is simple: First, I want my players to be able to draw upon external references; external, as in, "not me". Second, my players and I want to switch the mantle of the DM, from time to time, but, at the same time, to stay in the same setting. Third, of course, I freaking LOVE "Thieves' World", and I somehow managed to infect my players with the same bug. My way of D&DI wrote this a while ago; it's still as valid as it was back then. I repost it here so you'll know where I am coming from whenever we discuss some details. I wrote this in 2015; what has mainly changed is, while I preferred the DCC RPG, back then, I am now strongly leaning towards "Beyond the Wall", the famous "shared-sandbox" RPG, as a permanent replacement. I am not always this low-fi in my stylistic choices, and I don't rule out running more ambitious systems in the future, but, right now, I'd rather be a player in such a campaign, and not take the role of the DM. Right now, very, very basic D&D is what thrills me the most. Whether that may change some time in the future, I don't know - but gaming is always an exercise of preparation, as well: I am willing to invest some serious time into this one; this means that, for the next few years, I'll likely be happy to leave the running of other kinds of games to somebody else, and focus solely on running the best TW games possible. In terms of fantasy literature, I recommend my players the "Gentlemen Bastards" series by Scott Lynch, if they cannot get their hands on the admittedly pretty hard-to-get classic anthologies. Another, perhaps less obvious recommendation for perhaps somewhat "Thieves' World"-y novels and books that I'd make would be some of the "Earthsea" novels and stories by Ursula K. Le Guin. When I visualize Thieves' World, I don't think of the Ancient Levantine region, or of Babylon and Egypt. I think of the island of Gont. The game that's going onFor some time to come, the "default" setting for most games I run with my home group will be a village named "Aldea" on an island East of the Rankan dominion. (Yeah, aldea, the Spanish word for "village". I'm that cheap.) We're starting out one hundred years before the arrival of Prince Kadakithis in Sanctuary. For the time being, we will focus on a pretty standard "Beyond the Wall"-style game, albeit with "Thieves' World" as a background; we explore some of scenarios from the BTW books, and use them to slowly introduce some of the lore related to TW. Namely, a scenario called "The Grey Prince" might well become the focus of our game for the coming months, and I doubt that the party will leave Aldea and its surrounding area any time soon. Perspective...Obviously, the idea is to eventually arrive in the classic era of the Asprin-edited short story compilations, and to bring my players to Sanctuary. But that is years - and a few generations of characters - away, still. My only real goal for this game - or, rather, for the new style of games that will spawn from here is to have an excuse to go back to the roots of modern fantasy, and to the classic RPG material, whenever the game demands it. Elsewhere, I have written extensively about the fact that I think that I am somewhat aging out of the hobby; not in any dramatic way, but, you know, in the normal way that one changes with the years, with the normal changing of priorities, and with the growing scarcity of free time. I get the feeling like this is going to be my last "big" game, before I dial down my gaming efforts to a point when they become quite marginal; whenever that will be, really. If ever.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2017 18:16:53 GMT -6
So, which books do I use, and how do I personally treat canon? I own the Chaosium TW set, and a few other, minor sources; mostly, I am relying on the 2005 set of books, as released by Green Ronin, though, because they are simply more complete, and more tailored around actual D&D-based gaming. Also, the background of the "world beyond Sanctuary" is well-researched and fairly coherent. - With the older stuff, the maps and the art are better, though. For the game, we're using the full set of "Beyond the Wall", and that's going to be the base for most of the rules-based decisionmaking. Now, I have not run a game in twenty years without having a RC or similar document handy, and I think this will remain the case here. Now, as some of you may already know, "Thieves' World" remains, oddly enough, somewhat unfinished: From 2002 to 2006, Lynn Abbey helmed a new series based on Sanctuary and its jolly denizens, set two generations after the original anthologies; apparently, the series was setting out to be more complex - but as it is, it stopped after one novel, and two anthologies, clearly not where the editor and the authors wanted to leave it. While I doubt that the events of that series will ever be something I need to take into out account for my games (not unless we play until, what, 2037, that is), I will not ignore them. About Lynn Abbey's general treatment of TW, I have mixed feelings - I am glad that this second second series was made, as it contains a few rare gems; overall, though, it didn't read quite as well as the first one; in fact, it made me feel how "baroque" TW may feel, especially when compared to more modern fantasy. Still, even so, I am not a hater; those books have a place in my bookshelf.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 3:17:18 GMT -6
First, for no reason other than it's a useful file to keep, a "player map" of Sanctuary.
Again, it will take some time for the group to get there, but quite obviously, that's the goal, and collecting ressources of this kind is never wrong.
I *think* the map is from the hardcover omnibus editions of the first TW series, BTW.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 3:29:36 GMT -6
Below, a map of Thieves' World's Known World, from the 2005 Green Ronin RPG series. - The only map of its kind, and the one I've always used when working on the setting.
My group starts out just South of the city of Sihan (right upper corner of the map), in the non-canon village of Aldea.
Further adventures are likely going to lead them to the great city of Ranke. (West of Sihan.)
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Post by roaktheunknowable on Sept 22, 2017 3:34:09 GMT -6
This looks very interesting! I have been a long time fan of the books and have ran a few games in Sanctuary myself. It is always great fun. I look forward to seeing what you have in store and how things work out. I wish you and your group good luck and good gaming! Cheers
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 4:56:46 GMT -6
Thank you for your kind words, Ro'!
I am slowly building this one up - also, because the campaign is rather slow. We will have two or three play-dates before Christmas, but after that, there will perhaps be a break until February. So far, we have not even created characters yet, but created a city and a village, following some basic ideas from "Beyond the Wall".
Myself, I am slowly prep'ing the game; I guess, again, following the BTW rules, the next two sessions will really go down with the in-detail character development. I think I am going to love that part, frankly, because you get to work with some much lore, and just about everyone is always enthusiastic about this part.
Afterwards, I have not yet decided how we are going to develop things, at least not for the moment. I think we are going to move forward with "The Blighted Land" storyline, straight from the BTW books; it's nice, it's low-fi, and it allows me to introduce more elements from the campaign world in a suave way. In campaign-building terms, I'd like to make the necromancy/blight angle something beholden to the Northern realm: Per canon, the big baddie for the next few in-game generations of characters would be Black Tooth Horde, but I am not sure if I want that dynamic for the game; it's too similar to the Afridhi motif from Blackmoor. So, I am looking for something different. That "difference" may well ending up building itself from the game, though... We'll see.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 9:00:21 GMT -6
So, this one proves to be sort of a slow burner. In a first retrospect, I can already say that the value of the decision to switch to "Thieves' World" was probably more important than this actual first game. For me, as a DM, the setup is most enjoyable, to begin with: BTW is, indeed, a very streamlined and open game, and the preparation is, in one word, *comfortable*. For the first *real*, *big* gaming session, on Friday, I am preparing the following sequence: koboldpress.com/prepared-the-haunting-at-velston/It leaves the party time to handle any business concerning the village, and can be expanded or condensed as needed. Regarding actual TW lore, I still go very, very lightly. Today is a day for private correspondence, so I think I'll churn in the creation of a first basic timeline for the setting, as I see it. In the first few sessions, I plan to focus only on the village and its immediate environs, and the "Velston" scenario will likely be followed by "Ogre Hunt", a scenario from White Dwarf #19. (There I am again, with the White Dwarf; you can change the setting, but the mind stays always the same. ) Beyond that, I am not planning, right now - reaquainting myself with TW is the "planning". I am busy planting "story seeds", though, and trying to make the new setting "touchable" for the group. So, for example, one of the first prominent NPCs they'll meet will be an acolyte of the Blue Star, and there will also be a few veterans from the Rankan legion. I am still pondering whether to make a specific item from the Palladium books already part of the first session... But I have not decided yet.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 13:30:56 GMT -6
- So, last night, the group - presently consisting of a Barbarian, a Thief, a Priest, a Paladin, and a Bard - found a mysterious man on the shores of fair Kalimata. (That's the name of the island East of Ranke where our story takes place; it's very consciously not borrowed from any TW canon, but a setting we built together for this campaign. - And, while I am on it, the classes, as named above can best be described as approximations: BTW only knows three paragon classes, and I am busy customizing things in just every way me - and the players like.) ...So, the mysterious man. And he transformed into a werewolf! ...Or, rather, shed his human skin! And so, the TW/Palladium-World crossover is on: This mysterious new arrival will plague the party a while longer; and once they beat him, others will show upm as the Wolfen Empire from the Cold Lands is preparing its invasion of Rankan Empire. Timeline-wise, the group is at 51 years before Ranke invades Ilsig, and around 101 years before the events of the first "Thieves' World" anthology. The party will spend next session dealing with the rampaging wolfman, as he attacks the village's environs. Whether they will catch him will determine how soon afterwards the Wolfen army attacks the island. - I think it's likely that, after this particular encounter, we will move on straight to the Velston scenario, as the group will supposedly be joining an acolyte of the Blue Star who comes hunting after the wolfman. I don't think we will see the Wolfen again, afterwards, until the party is supposedly about level 5 or 6, but the elements are there, already. Here is a first map that I am working on... Or, rather, one that I will be filling up as the campaign progresses. Sij is the biggest city on the island, Aldea and Rerik are two neighboring villages in the backwoods. "Quellstein" (German for "Wellstone" --> Velston) is an abandoned village to the North. I plan to make Wellstone somewhat of a recurring location, but I am not sure yet in what context. Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 13:38:36 GMT -6
(This, of course, is not an official map, or whatever -just a handout I give to my players.)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2017 10:44:13 GMT -6
Slowly, very slowly, we're expanding the "Velston" plot. I am linking it to the "Blighted Lands" scenario from "Beyond the Wall", which is to say, a fairly plain and unadorned zombie plague. The game is finding it's balance now, though, which I think is very important for the group: Everybody seems to enjoy what we're doing. The group accidentally killed a fairly powerful acolyte of the Blue Star (if you know the TW tales, that'd be a mage like Lythande) because they were forced to kill his soul-bonded familiar, a black panther who had also been infected by the Blight. We left off last session when they were about to discover his body: If they loot his corpse, that's going to bite them back. I think I am going to take the game towards another confrontation with the Wolfen, regardless of how the Blight scenario advances. Maybe play with it a bit, and gradually emphasize that the Wolfen are more than a situational threat. (Basically, the party is going Werewolf hunting, but has not yet found what they think they are looking for.) I am also looking at the classic Greyhawk d20 "The Fright of Tristor", to expand on the werewolf/greater conspiracy scenario. In general, even though the campaign is fairly removed from the known territories of TW's Known World, I think the introduction and the "interweaving" of canonical info with some of the liberties I am taking is working fairly well. It was also wise to locate the first adventures out of Sanctuary, simply because the canonical info is fairly extensive. To re-acquaint myself with the setting is also a process that will only happen bit by bit. The way I am working, it will be a year or two until I can run a TW campaign set in Sanctuary in a comfortable fashion - like, from memory. -- But that's not the worst of goals; a good reason to keep the books around, a good reason to delve into obscure 80s fantasy a bit. My verdict so far, from the occasional rereading I am doing, these days and weeks: Janet Morris, difficult and thematically weird. David Drake, in contrast, a hidden master of short fiction. Bought his collection, "Balefires"; not regretting that one, so far.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2017 10:56:58 GMT -6
Looking to use CSIO for Sij; it's quick, it's easy, and it goes more or less with the flair of what the territories East of Ranke might look like.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2017 6:24:21 GMT -6
Next session, I am going to introduce another "signature" character - and if you like, you can help me develop him a bit.
The party might benefit from a tank, and so I thought - why not bring Jubal's great-grandfather into the campaign? He would be a barbarian who eventually becomes a gladiator. I am tempted to simply name him "Jubal", as well.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this idea?
- Other than that, I think Dungeon Saga might become a bigger factor in my regular games than it seemed at first. Nothing to get your friends out for play like a new toy, I guess...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 2:19:35 GMT -6
Not a new post, just at home with the yearly stomach flu. Thought I'd dodged the season this year, but was wrong. ...Aaaaanyway, mental note to keep this adventure in mind: ...Because it features "canon" Jubal, and thus would one distant day make a fine connection to the campaign mythology. My general approach to TW mirrors the one I've taken with other settings; over the course of a couple of games, I am working myself towards the setting. How that approach actually looks, wildly differs, or rather, is really a process that I don't particularly strucuture - but usually, it involves me choosing a remote, "undefined" area of the setting, and then gradually working myself towards the center. When, or even IF we will ever arrive at that center - in this case, clearly the city of Sanctuary, and a storyline set in the original era of the novels - I can't tell yet, nor do I specifically plan for it. -- I try to guide the direction into which the "garden" grows, of course, whenever I find/remember something like the Jubal adventure, it certainly becomes a perspective. I think this particular campaign will go into a different direction: Given the time and the location, the conflict with the "Blacktooth Barbarians" is where I am driving towards. How we will get there, no idea right now. ...But maybe later.
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Post by kesher on Jan 3, 2018 11:44:13 GMT -6
Awesome to good ol' Thieve's World getting some play! :-)
I just acquired a copy of the boxed set in mighty fine condition, so synchronicity and all that...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 13:39:24 GMT -6
Hehe, happy to be able to share this with you, Kesher! So, far, the whole experience has been a lot of fun; the group is a bit uneven, in that the players don't quite work well together, still, but the writing of the campaign, and the general ability to get into the topic again has been quite interesting. - On one side, it's interesting to dig into 30-something-year-old RPG supplements, on another, many of the writers from back in the day were pretty good, and I see this as an excuse/gateway to get a bit into their works. - David Drake, for example, is perhaps no GRRM, but still a great writer. The same goes for the much-underrated Andrew Offutt. It's also interesting to see the apocryphal side of this multi-year operation; apparently, quite a number of products outside what was published was considered to be added for the line were written, and then used for something else. (I don't remember where I got this from, but apparently, Midkemia Press' "Carse" was also considered for TW.) In sum, very good times, so far: In a time of my life when I generally struggle to find enough free-time to do anything not immediately serious, this is a nice refreshment. Also, TW, by its ingrained structure, due to being such a long-term, yet considerably small-scale project, doesn't hit you all over the place with content, and/or new developments, publications, and so on. Compared to other parts of the hobby, it's a very quiet niche.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 14:28:36 GMT -6
The original Chaosium box is an incredibly rich resource; they don't make 'em like that, any more. That said, for actual, modern-day gaming, I find its use rather limited --- simply, because it only covers the first two anthologies. Still, the maps and the art are the best in the the entire line, and the close-up look into Sanctuary's Maze is extremely useful. BUT, for "modern" roleplaying, with players used to today's gaming culture, and who are likely unacquainted with the novels, it might be a bit too "small-scale"; I think the scenario suggestions and the Runequest-Cities-style tables help, but I will really have to hunt down those four or five adventures that were released after the Chaosium box to really be able to flesh things out. - The reason that I haven't done so after all this time is really, the campaign will probably not arrive in Sanctuary for quite a while longer.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 7:11:19 GMT -6
I've found at least the looks of my "Jubal, great-grandfather of Jubal". Side note: The clip is from the vampire tv-series "The Strain". ...Which I think I should have a look at, again. The books the series were written by Guillermo del Toro, of all people, together Chuck Hogan, who is mostly a great writer by his own merits: I read them a few years ago, and was quite impressed, especially because the series feels like an actualization of F. Paul Wilson's "The Adversary Cycle". The TV series, however, didn't feel all that enjoyable to me; it's well done, and all, but it was to similar to the cavalcade of "zombie outbreak" movies that were produced around 2010. Maybe I am going to give it a second try, though, seeing that the producers apparently dared to do something bold, here and there.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2018 3:26:47 GMT -6
Created a wiki for the campaign on Tavern Keeper: www.tavern-keeper.com/campaign/3039/about...Never tried something like that, but I guess it's not a bad idea to structure things a bit. ...Let's see how that experiment works out. I'll still be posting here, of course; I just want to see whether there is really an advantage in creating a wiki like that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 4:13:57 GMT -6
Eyeing White Dwarf #34's "Trouble at Embertrees" tonight - still on Kalimata, located inland from Aldea; no time to do a write-up, but I am pretty happy about this. I've wanted to do this one since forever, and now I am getting the (rather spontaneously created) opportunity. - Wanted to play a round of Dungeon Saga instead, but the players voted for TW. ...I classify that alone as a huge success.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 20:48:52 GMT -6
'Twas a very cool session; DIDN'T play "Trouble at Embertrees", but brought the campaign forward in a substantial way.
Basically, the group is dealing with three major threats now:
- The Wolfman, who's still missing in action.
- A strange plague that is comparable to the Blight from Warcraft, and that turns its victims into mindless, almost plant-like cannibals.
- Ten enigmatic black skeletons, of which albino Jubal tried to bring nine to the city state of Sij when the Blight infected the oxen that were pulling his cart, and of which one is still missing.
--- Yeah, I introduced albino Jubal, as per the post above! The Great-Grandfather of the Jubal from Sanctuary, perhaps. And I might introduce Lythande as well, one of these days. Not that the inclusion of that character would make any specific sense, right now, but the recognition value might be big, and I can build on the character later on. More than anything else, I want to gradually introduce Sanctuary-related motifs. Ideally, by the end of the year, I want to migrate the group to Sanctuary; not, as TW games tend to do, for good, but in a way that makes the players acquainted with the core of the setting. So that we can go there, from time to time, if it's of use to us. The core of the ongoing campaign is bound to stay in Ranke, at this point, though. If only because the setting is already established among the players, and I get the chance to run bigger, and more traditionally D&D-y games there. Sanctuary and environs, for all their unique appeal, form a rather limited space to work in, as a DM. ...Anyway, good times. Many places to go, much to build yet.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2018 3:19:38 GMT -6
FTR, this game is obviously still going; it was just that, after all the melodrama involving the Murkhill troll-a-palooza, I really didn't feel all too motivated to share much about my own exploits, any more, at least for a time. Not because of, what, anything, but because the sad side effect drama-lamas like that one have is that you forget to associate a community with the original purpose it had for you. - Which, in this case, is to talk about D&D, and not to spend your free time sitting down with the other admins trying to profile a sociopath. Also, and this is a quip not all of you might be able to place, I am most certainly not a "social justice warrior". ...Anyway, the campaign continued with "Lair of the Vile Worm", my shiny reward for participating in one of the very worst crowdfunding campaigns of all time. - For that, the adventure was surprisingly okay, though, given the circumstances. Afterwards, we played part of "Embertrees", and I think we are going to continue with that one, as well as with "Plague from the Dead", from White Dwarf #69. That one, in particular, in retrospect I would have loved to link to the old "Tegel Manor", or perhaps to the old DQ adventure "The Palace of Otoncle". (Which is a lot like "Tegel Manor", but shorter, and more straight-forward in its narrative.) While I am preparing another separate "Embertrees" run for a small convention later this year, and also am still prep'ing "Terror at Troollmarsh" (WD #74), I think the group will be taking a break after "Plague" - because we want to play out the "Dungeon Saga" boardgame campaign, and that one is going to take quite some time. Overall, the mix of the very story-heavy TW and the "Hero Quest"-ish Dungeon Saga light-RPG is proving to be an effective combination, though. "Deep" games, and "light" games, in a good, regular mix. Myself, I think I want to tinker on TW a bit further - the Rankan setting is "okay", but I am looking for a more traditionally D&D-y spot inside the setting again. Sanctuary, the city, is, quite simply, an awesome spot to play in... But it's obviously urban fantasy, not your usual dungeoneering. ...But for now, it's fine. I think I will put some more work into this latest idea, though, come time.
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