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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 7:56:12 GMT -6
Here's a rather old article on how the Star Wars sequels took away some of the mysticism of the setting. www.bbc.com/culture/story/20170522-did-star-wars-ever-need-sequelsI doubt there's much anyone here would disagree with. However, I do think the general idea of the article can be applied to non-Star Wars RPG settings. Basically, how named but undescribed events and locations can be more effective than things that are well described and pictured. |
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Post by sixdemonbag on Jun 8, 2017 20:49:45 GMT -6
I completely agree with the general premise. I ESPECIALLY agree regarding the prequels and the Disney movies.
I don't agree about TESB and ROTJ, however.
A world without Yodo, Hoth, Lando, Boba, the Emperor, Ewoks, Jabba, etc. is not a world I want to live in!! Besides, Star Wars did a masterful job of hinting at a larger world that largely remains unexplained, while at the same time setting up future events and characters. It's this unique mix and rare balancing act that makes Star Wars one of the best examples of world-buiding ever. Couple that with truly likable characters, genuinely surprising plot twists, and iconic groundbreaking effects and set pieces, and you have a modern classic.
Only Tolkien (obviously) and Martin (potentially) were able to do this as deftly as Lucas. Tolkien being the first and the master at this. I'd allow Rowling in the conversation as well.
As a better example, I'd use The Matrix, which I still love. It did many of the same things that Star Wars did. What it's sequels didn't do is keep the same noir/Hong Kong feel as the original (a major misfire). They hit all the same story beats as the Original Trilogy but ultimately lacked in execution.
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Post by geoffrey on Jun 8, 2017 23:05:18 GMT -6
Thank you very much for the link. While there is good and bad in the post-May 25, 1977 Star Wars stuff, the author's point still stands. Another reason to wish only the 1977 film existed: If that's all there was, it would be readily available on Blu-ray and on DVD for less than $10. Instead, it is not legally available at all, unless one wishes to pay big bucks on the secondary market. |
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Post by sixdemonbag on Jun 9, 2017 1:45:05 GMT -6
Another reason to wish only the 1977 film existed: If that's all there was, it would be readily available on Blu-ray and on DVD for less than $10. Instead, it is not legally available at all, unless one wishes to pay big bucks on the secondary market. So much this. It's a cultural travesty that the unaltered OT doesn't exist in a modern HD format.  |
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Post by Falconer on Jun 9, 2017 10:39:22 GMT -6
It exists… just not legally!
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Post by sixdemonbag on Jun 10, 2017 13:21:09 GMT -6
It exists… just not legally! True. Those fan projects are really amazing. |
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Post by ritt on Jun 11, 2017 19:40:55 GMT -6
I won't say that there never should have been any sequels, as that would make me a complete hypocrite. Just six months ago I was watching Rogue One and I was as rapturously enthralled as any little kid.
But...
The original '77 movie is sui generis, a totally unique alchemical blend of space opera, Westerns, WWII movies, The Wizard of Oz, Samurai films, and 60's-70's Southern California Baby Boomer culture. I think that even most Star Wars fans don't really get just how special it is. It and Superman may someday eventually stand as the two genuine myths of the 20th century.
The sequels and prequels, even the really great ones, are "Just" sci-fi adventure movies.
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Post by geoffrey on Jun 11, 2017 19:44:28 GMT -6
The original '77 movie is sui generis, a totally unique alchemical blend of space opera, Westerns, WWII movies, The Wizard of Oz, Samurai films, and 60's-70's Southern California Baby Boomer culture. I don't think that even most Star Wars fans really get just how special it is. It and Superman may someday eventually stand as the two genuine myths of the 20th century. The sequels and prequels, even the really great ones, are "Just" sci-fi adventure movies.  |
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Post by cadriel on Jun 12, 2017 5:20:13 GMT -6
Philosophically I agree with this - the original Star Wars is by far the great achievement of the series and things afterward never reached that level. I also think it would've been better off being followed by Splinters of the Mind's Eye.
Viscerally ... well, I'd watch a movie that was basically 2 hours of lightsaber duels, so I'm just not objective on this.
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Post by Falconer on Jun 12, 2017 13:32:09 GMT -6
Have you guys seen this? All the more funny because the actual Brian Daley “Han Solo” novels are totally classic sci-fi pulp adventures that could have been written in just about any decade! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 9:36:12 GMT -6
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Post by sixdemonbag on Jun 18, 2017 14:08:42 GMT -6
I agree with most of these criticisms. I just don't like them being applied to Star Wars. Star Wars was first and introduced these tropes. I don't like blaming the source for all the copycats that followed. It's like blaming D&D for various RPG tropes, it's not the inventor's fault that everyone copied the basic structures and assumptions. Furthermore, we forget that in 1980 ESB blew everyone's collective minds. Nobody complained about this stuff 37 years ago because it didn't exist outside of old radio and print serials where Lucas (and Gygax, et al.) took inspiration. I guess I give the Star Wars franchise a lot of slack for being first. Maybe too much!  |
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Post by Finarvyn on Jun 19, 2017 6:34:54 GMT -6
Yeah, when STAR WARS hit the theater it totally blew me away. The special effects were better than anything else of the era, the feel of the universe and characters was solid, it followed a clear good-evil plotline with an awesome villain or two, and it had an amazing soundtrack. Those things were likely biased a lot by the fact that (1) they were the first, and (2) I was just at the right age to appreciate it. On the Marv-o-meter I have only rated two films a 10/10 -- STAR WARS and the first PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN.
While I enjoy most of the 8 movies so far, I can see where it might have been neat to have stopped at one. I ran an OD&D Star Wars after the first one came out, and I ended up inserting a lot of my own creativity and inspiration to springboard off of what STAR WARS had done. Then, when Splinter of the Mind's Eye came out, I had to revise my thinking somewhat and tinker again with my campaign setting. Of course, we know now that Empire Strikes Back took a totally different approach for several key ideas of the STAR WARS universe, and each successive movie has introduced even more elements to the stage. There is a certain part of me that would like to undo things, roll back the clock, and stop the series early on.
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Post by cadriel on Jun 19, 2017 12:04:57 GMT -6
"The message was that even a lowly peasant from the middle of nowhere could rescue a beautiful princess and confound an aristocratic villain."
This is a bit off, though. In the internal canon of Star Wars, Luke is not a lowly peasant. He is the son of a Jedi Knight, who was betrayed and murdered by a young Jedi who turned to the Dark Side of the Force. That rogue Jedi's name was Darth Vader, and always had been. The name "Anakin Skywalker" wasn't yet attached to the father; it came up in Return of the Jedi only after the retcon (Vader=Luke's father) had already been made.
The degree of self-reference in the storytelling is extreme, though. Even having Darth Vader be from Tattooine was an odd choice; I mean, he makes no comment on the fact that the Tantive IV was heading directly to his home planet, of all places. It was one relieving thing about both The Force Awakens and Rogue One: between the two films they only spend one scene on a planet that we've seen in another film, in Vader's castle on Mustafar.
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Post by geoffrey on Jun 19, 2017 20:46:37 GMT -6
It was one relieving thing about both The Force Awakens and Rogue One: between the two films they only spend one scene on a planet that we've seen in another film, in Vader's castle on Mustafar. Don't forget the fourth moon of Yavin in Rogue One! |
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Post by cadriel on Jun 20, 2017 7:49:07 GMT -6
It was one relieving thing about both The Force Awakens and Rogue One: between the two films they only spend one scene on a planet that we've seen in another film, in Vader's castle on Mustafar. Don't forget the fourth moon of Yavin in Rogue One! That's true, although that was a necessary plot point and not just "Let's set it on Tattooine for some reason." |
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