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Post by Falconer on Feb 15, 2017 16:17:29 GMT -6
Here is how I see it going down. All dates and ages are imprecise. 35 years before the Battle of the Death StarThe Clone Wars Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Knight, 28 years old Annikin Skywalker, star-pilot, 19 years old they serve Alderaan together 19 years before the Battle of the Death StarThe Dark Times – rise of the Empire Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Master, 44 years old Annikin Skywalker, now a Jedi Knight, 35 years old Darth Vader (first + last name), Jedi pupil of Obi-Wan, 23 years old Darth turns to evil, hunts down the Jedi, kills Skywalker fights Obi-Wan and loses, falling into a volcano I see the Clone Wars as a science-fictiony scenario of “what if cloning went out of control”. Planets and organizations raise up clones against each other. And not just troopers. Obi-Wan (OB-1) must be read as “Old Ben 1”, and an indication that he has clones. Is the Emperor one such? (Cf. ESB script’s “The Emperor’s face cannot be seen, for it is shrouded in dark robes with a monk’s hood, reminiscent of the cloak worn by old Ben Kenobi”). Could be, right? We must postulate a Mrs. Lars-Skywalker, sister of Owen Lars and wife of Annikin Skywalker. They all grew up on Tatooine. Is Darth Vader a clone of Annikin? Or is Luke a clone of Darth Vader? Or did Darth sire Luke on Annikin’s wife? More thoughts as they occur to me. Feel free to chime in.
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Post by Finarvyn on Mar 7, 2017 5:12:31 GMT -6
I thought I had replied to this a long time back, but I see no post so I must be imagining it. A few general thoughts: (1) I think somewhere in the novelization of ESB it mentions that Owen Lars is Obi-Wan's brother or half-brother or some such. I remember at the time thinking that ol' Benny Lars of Tatooine went off and changed his name to Obi-Wan Kenobi. That could explain how folks around Tatooine know him as Ben Kenobi. (2) I'm wondering if Falconer's clone notion could reconcile the while "I'm your father, Luke" thing with "From a certain point of view." If you've got clones running around everywhere, it may be a little tricky to identify parentage. Also, I hate the notion that Benny Lars was such a liar and a screw-up. He can't train Jedi right without them turning Dark and then lies about it after? Methinks that Falconer may have come up with something that may solve this puzzle.
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Post by Falconer on Mar 7, 2017 14:43:11 GMT -6
No time for a thorough reply, but I believe it is the RotJ novelization that has Ben and Owen as brothers. I’m not sure there’s any good in working that in. Perhaps the RotJ author figured that, since Anakin (non-Vader) had ceased to exist, Owen had to have SOME brother that he didn’t approve of.
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Post by Starbeard on Mar 12, 2017 7:55:39 GMT -6
Another way to spin it could be that Obi-Wan (OB-1) is himself a clone. Kenobi could be his personal name, the 'family' of clones he belonged to, or perhaps the unit he served under (either way, a familial identification). Or it could be the name of his clone source: Production series OB, clone batch 1, DNA source: Kenobi.
That way the RotJ novelization could have things half right, if Owen was perhaps from the same clone batch or familial unit, but from different parentage. Both could have been OB-1s, and in hiding each took a name inspired by their clone series: Ben and Owen.
However, it feels more pulpy to me that users of the Force aren't themselves clones. My instinct tells me that people like Darth Vader, Obi-wan and Annikin (and later, after he's revealed as a Jedi-guy, the Emperor), ought to be 'originals', but that each was subject to being cloned because of their abilities: some against their will, like Obi-wan, and some quite willingly, like the Emperor. Darth Vader himself might be the shining jewel in the Emperor's ego, one of his personal clones and the only one ever known to master the Force.
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Post by Finarvyn on Mar 13, 2017 3:57:04 GMT -6
Hey, If Obi-Wan becomes OB-1, perhaps Owen is O-N.
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Post by Falconer on Mar 13, 2017 10:18:23 GMT -6
Right!
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Post by Falconer on Feb 25, 2018 22:26:54 GMT -6
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Post by Falconer on Mar 18, 2018 22:41:20 GMT -6
Aha! This is interesting. I have picked up two published sources from the 90s which include timelines. I will now juxtapose the sections relevant to this discussion. A Guide to the Star Wars Universe, Second Edition (1994) | Star Wars Encyclopedia (1998) | 60 BSW4 Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Knight, born. | 60 BBY Ben “Obi-Wan” Kenobi is born. | 55 BSW4 Anakin Skywalker born. | 41 BBY Anakin Skywalker is born. | 35 BSW4 Clone Wars end. | 32 BBY Emperor Palpatine begins his rise to power. | 29 BSW4 Han Solo born in Corellian star system. | 29 BBY Han Solo is born. | Fall of the Republic A dark period of corruption and social injustice sweeps through the Republic, paving the way for Senator Palpatine’s rise to power. | 22-20 BBY Anakin Skywalker is seduced by the dark side of the Force and becomes Darth Vader. | 18 BSW4 Luke Skywalker and Leia Organa born and placed in hiding; Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader; Jedi Knights hunted and killed; Palpatine becomes Emperor; Empire formed; first stirrings of rebellion begin. | 18 BBY Luke Skywalker and his twin sister Leia are born. |
This is interesting, because clearly the 1998 timeline is a revision of the 1994 timeline, but already it essentially conforms to the then-upcoming Prequel Trilogy: TPM takes place in 32 BBY (Anakin is 11 years old), and AotC-RotS range from 22-19 BBY. But in this light, it is even easier to see what the shape of Eps. I-III might have been originally meant to be. If you ignore the birthdates, there are exactly three entries in the timeline.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2018 11:58:32 GMT -6
Personally, I'm opposed to the idea that the Clone Wars involved cloned Jedi. For Star Wars to make sense, the Jedi have to be a fairly small, almost secretive, religious order. If they Jedi were so important that they were being cloned en masse then you wouldn't be seeing people dismissing them as "ancient" or "hokey".
In my mind, the only sort of Clone Wars that makes sense would be similar to the prequels where various planets or organizations created disposable clone (or robot) armies to fight proxy wars for territory or power. Soon, the whole galaxy would be covered in all these little wars causing widespread economic damage.
As a reaction to these seemingly endless wars, the leaders in the Republic would be forced to allocate a powerful military to it's leader creating the Empire, not as a conquering force, but as a peacekeeping force to stamp out all these conflicts. This would align with Darth Vader's desire to bring peace and order to the galaxy. Perhaps Vader's family was killed in one of these Clone Wars, and the "idealistic crusade" Kenobi spoke of was an effort to try and stop the formation of the Empire. This would give Vader motivation not only to join the Empire, but to betray and kill Annakin Skywalker.
Conflicts like this would also be motivation for Alderaan to disarm and dedicate themselves to peaceful resolutions.
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Post by Falconer on Apr 30, 2018 22:33:58 GMT -6
In summary, the first episode of the serial could have been a dystopian science-out-of-control (escalating and unstable cloning technology) epic about the end of a grand multi-generational war between planets. Against that backdrop, General Kenobi of Alderaan meets great pilot/cunning warrior/good friend Anakin Skywalker. Episode Two could have been the fall of the Republic and Anakin’s seduction to evil, and in Episode Three it should already have full-blown looked-and-felt like classic SW, with the Empire and Star Destroyers and Moffs. Volcano duel at the beginning so you have Darth Vader hunting down Jedi (characters you know and love) all movie.
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