Blackmoor Monk with OD&D hit dice?

[Elphilm]

Does anyone know what the hit dice progression of the Blackmoor monk was before the switch to different polyhedrals based on class as in Greyhawk? I ask because there's a possible artifact of the original HD scheme in the Quivering Palm description on page 2:

Blackmoor said:

The creature affected must have no more hit dice than the monk (treat +1's on monks' hit dice as no addition to hit dice, but they may be used to equalize similar +1's which are possessed by the victims)

Except that, of course, the monk has no +1's using Greyhawk style HD; Blackmoor only notes that they have a maximum of 16 4-sided dice, one for each level. Unless the above passage simply refers to possible additional pips from high constitution?

[oldkat]

Wow, that's a good question. And would be fascinating to see some original (pre Greyhawk) information on the class. Hope there is some.

[aldarron]

Eh, I reckon this prolly ought to be in the Blackmoor section.

Any character with a 15+ constitution score will get a +1 to HD.

Anyway, there was no pre-Greyhawk monk. The class is largely a product of Brian Blume, created for the Supplement, though it is unclear whether Arneson may have had some part in it too.

[oldkat]

I suppose one could use the cleric table in M&M p.18 as a template, considering monks were often characterized as a subclass of cleric (see "monk" and druid in Holmes, p.7 and even AD&D 1E Attack matric for clerics, druids and monks, p.74)One could accept these as a precedent 'of sorts' putting the monk in this light.

[Finarvyn]

Nov 21, 2015 18:08:45 GMT -6 oldkat said:

I suppose one could use the cleric table in M&M p.18 as a template, considering monks were often characterized as a subclass of cleric.

You beat me to it. This is exactly what I've done in my campaigns for years.

Not just "often characterized" but actually listed that way in the OD&D rule books. Supplement II Blackmoor says that monks are a sub-class of cleric on page #1.

[oldkat]

Then that's likely where Dr. Holmes (or someone?)saw the source.

[aldarron]

Nov 21, 2015 18:08:45 GMT -6 oldkat said:

I suppose one could use the cleric table in M&M p.18 as a template, considering monks were often characterized as a subclass of cleric (see "monk" and druid in Holmes, p.7 and even AD&D 1E Attack matric for clerics, druids and monks, p.74)One could accept these as a precedent 'of sorts' putting the monk in this light.

It's really funny you should say that.... I've been working on a revamped cleric monk since I watched the Sorceror and the White Snake on Netflix last week.

[waysoftheearth]

Daniel Wagner mentions that the Aero Hobbies group had a martial arts class prior to Blackmoor here.

[Finarvyn]

Nov 21, 2015 21:59:31 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

Daniel Wagner mentions that the Aero Hobbies group had a martial arts class prior to Blackmoor here.

I assume he means "Blackmoor" to mean "Blackmoor, the supplement" as opposed to "Blackmoor, the campaign."

[Elphilm]

Nov 21, 2015 20:36:05 GMT -6 aldarron said:

It's really funny you should say that.... I've been working on a revamped cleric monk since I watched the Sorceror and the White Snake on Netflix last week.

Unsurprisingly, the monk's been on my mind because I've been watching some of the older kung fu flicks like Executioners from Shaolin.

It's... interesting that Brian Blume isn't credited anywhere in the Blackmoor supplement, even though the monk is apparently wholly penned by him.

Anyway, slapping the LBB cleric's HD on the monk is probably the way to go. I'd like to simplify the monk a lot anyway to make it more in line with the short and sweet class writeups of the original booklets.