|
Post by Punkrabbitt on Sept 2, 2015 11:41:36 GMT -6
OK, so I am renovating my house rules a little. I have formulated a lot more of my campaign background, and Clerics just don't fit into it. The overall flavor and religion is Celtic, and while druids, bards, and seers have their place in the setting, they are not really prime material for professional adventurers (meaning, any of the three may make the occasional foray out of their habitations to research or recover something, but generally their role is tied to the community.)
So I am thinking that maybe I can just roll the Cleric spell list into additional choices for the Magic User ("what could possibly go wrong?" I joke to myself.) This would put support and healing spells into the realm of the arcane, and I am not sure of the wisdom of that. But Clerics just don't fit! This would also have the net effect of reducing to just two classes for humans, making them more on par with any demi-humans that may show up (although part of the campaign direction is "There are different kinds of humans that have been changed by the use of their magic, but none of the usual fantasy suspects such as dwarfs, elfs, or hobbits as regular denizens of the world.)
Thoughts? Opinions? Are my anti-anxiety meds making me think far too weird?
|
|
|
Post by Punkrabbitt on Sept 2, 2015 13:50:27 GMT -6
Naturally, after pondering this long enough, I realize that a lack of Clerics results in a lack of Turn Undead... in my "zombie apocalypse" scenario, I also had not considered the impact of Turn Undead so maybe it is for the better...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 20:36:33 GMT -6
Better late than never.
I see two options; first, leave it out and make the undead really terrifying. The second option is to make it a spell that must be learned like any other. The latter gives the players a way out if necessary, but one they must think about using.
|
|
|
Post by talysman on Oct 31, 2015 10:57:57 GMT -6
Third option: Make it a feature of M-Us. They just use forbidden knowledge instead of faith.
|
|
|
Post by cooper on Oct 31, 2015 12:34:23 GMT -6
Just make "turn undead" a 1st level spell. You can decide if it scales, or if there are higher level versions.
|
|
|
Post by Mike on Nov 1, 2015 21:45:23 GMT -6
In Seven Voyages of Zylarthen, anyone with a "holy symbol" can turn undead. I like that approach.
|
|
|
Post by religon on Nov 2, 2015 10:25:05 GMT -6
One possible solution if you wish to merge the classes is having two spell progression rates for wizards... those with turn undead ability gain spells just a little more slowly. (Or a small 10% xp penalty for M-U's with turning ability.)
|
|
|
Post by talysman on Nov 2, 2015 13:41:25 GMT -6
One possible solution if you wish to merge the classes is having two spell progression rates for wizards... those with turn undead ability gain spells just a little more slowly. (Or a small 10% xp penalty for M-U's with turning ability.) The existing cleric spell progression is about half as many spells as the M-U progression, at least for the first few levels, so that might be a possibility. Tentative rule: "LAWFUL Magic-Users may opt to become White Magicians, adding the ability to turn undead and other supernatural entities, but as a consequence, they gain spells slowly: they can cast half as many spells of each level (round up) as a normal Magic-User. CHAOTIC Magic-Users may become Black Magicians, with the ability to command undead or even demons, if their level is high enough." In Seven Voyages of Zylarthen, anyone with a "holy symbol" can turn undead. I like that approach. I actually allow any non-Chaotic character to turn undead as a 1st level cleric, but this requires the use of holy water, so it's possible to run out of supplies and lose their defense against undead. Lawful characters can turn undead as a cleric half their level, as long as they pray once a week at a holy shrine of some kind. "Paladins", to me, are just Lawful fighters who gain that ability plus healing (again, requires holy water) and disease immunity for one week after visiting a shrine.
|
|
|
Post by Mike on Nov 3, 2015 1:07:27 GMT -6
I actually allow any non-Chaotic character to turn undead as a 1st level cleric, but this requires the use of holy water, so it's possible to run out of supplies and lose their defense against undead. Lawful characters can turn undead as a cleric half their level, as long as they pray once a week at a holy shrine of some kind. "Paladins", to me, are just Lawful fighters who gain that ability plus healing (again, requires holy water) and disease immunity for one week after visiting a shrine. Jolly good idea sir.
|
|
premmy
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 295
|
Post by premmy on Nov 3, 2015 10:00:38 GMT -6
Over and above the issue of getting rid of Clerics, I'm also intrigued by the idea of giving the campaign world a strong Celtic feel. Care to share details, punkrabbit?
Just as a bit of brainstorming, if I wanted to do it, I'd start by thinking about the following:
- Descriptions of combat tend to be extremely over-the-top in Celtic myth, with people stabbing holes in each other big enough for birds to fly through, having hair hard and spiky enough that it catches falling apples, vaulting over a wall with their spear, Cú Chulainn fighting off a raiding army singlehanded for days without rest, etc.. That feel should somehow come across in game. One idea I would consider is to speed up HP recovery by a LOT. (Which also segues well into what Gary wrote in ADnD about how HP is NOT just physical wounds but also luck, fatigue, divine favour, etc..) Like, drink a cup of mead, gain 1d6 HP. Rest for the night by a campfire, regain 1HP/level. Actual bed rest in a home, full HP recovery. Let those PC fighters feel like Celtic heroes.
- Similarly, I would take a look at how Fighters get special abilities in Spears of the Dawn. Again, something like that would fit well into the source material: Cú Chulainn's Salmon Leap, the entrance tests into the Fianna and other stuff.
- If you (rightly) remove the Cleric, why not also remove the Magic User (maybe live it as an NPC-only thing for bad guys), and make the Druid the main PC spellcaster? Move away from the completely ahistorical "70s American Treehugging Hippy" concept of the ADnD druid and creat a spell list closer to the source material: some nature stuff about speaking with animals and the like, but also lots of divination, curses and blessings, Turn Undead (or probably Turn Fae, Turn Demons or something like that), there's enough space to shoehorn in some of the less blatantly artillery-like M.U. spells (so no Magic Missile, Fireball, etc.).
- What about alignment? What would Law and Chaos mean in a Celtic-inspired world? Maybe the World of Man and the World of the Supernatural? Or maybe Law is the world of humans and the Tuatha Dé, and Chaos is the "old bad gods" of the Fomorians and the previous human race of the Fir Bolg.
- Equipment? Obviously, plate armour is right out. What about mail? Historically, it would be an excellent fit for the Gauls, but maybe you're thinking more of Irish mythology, and I'm not sure if metal armour was ever a big thing in there. Maybe make shields better (either more point of AC or the "shields will be splintered" rule) to compensate for the lack of heavy or even medium armour. Could also tie in with the Fighter special abilities above, give them a class-based AC bonus. Also, spears should be a bigger deal than in standard DnD.
- Totally gotta have geasa.
Just some brainstorming.
|
|
|
Post by Punkrabbitt on Nov 3, 2015 15:52:17 GMT -6
premmy, those are some good ideas. The "wizard" is retained in the setting because my younger daughter wanted to play one. That breathes fire. This was rationalized by a backstory that involved her father being a dragon in human form, who also taught her the basics of her innate magical ability. Her push to the adventuring life was that her dragon father disappeared in her early teens, and she is now off in the world looking for him. Being "dragonborn," there are sometimes roleplaying consequences... The larger world is given a Celtic feel first and foremost by every single npc having annoyingly hard to pronounce Irish names (best $1 I ever spent at DriveThruRPG, helps me name my World of Warcraft dwarfs too!) I also use gaelic titles of nobility, keep the druids, bards, and seers in view, and keep away from things like large cities or military garrisons. Armor is usually only a helmet and shield, weapons primarily sword or spear. Nobility and retainers may have chainmail, depending on wealth. Folklore is out there that the Sidhe were driven from the mortal realm by the Fomorians, who rule the known world ftom their various islands of mystery. And, the only gods of note are from the Celtic pantheon. As the campaign progresses, the characters will find themselves investigating cults of the Cthulhu mythos, which in turn will lead back to the Fomorians. The big picture is Mythos vs. Tuatha Da Danaan, with the Fomorians as proxies for the Mythos and the Sidhe for the Tuatha. The Old Gods are nominally on top, but the Fomorians prefer to run the world as their own petty fiefdoms. But the characters are only aware of a dragon and some old faerie tales...
|
|