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Post by rastusburne on Aug 9, 2015 18:07:58 GMT -6
Hey guys, I've finally finished the Alpha Playtest of Tombstone. It's largely inspired by TSR's Boot Hill, though it deviates substantially in terms of mechanics. It's a free PDF download. Links: PDFPaperback
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Post by Finarvyn on Aug 10, 2015 4:44:12 GMT -6
Interesting. I'm going to download a copy, but it would be interesting to hear more about how it is similar/different from Boot Hill. EDIT -- had to remember my lulu login.
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Post by Finarvyn on Aug 10, 2015 6:10:52 GMT -6
I've tried downloading this three times and keep getting a corrupted file that won't open.
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Post by simonw on Aug 10, 2015 8:17:19 GMT -6
Looks good from a skim through. Gotta say, the cover is great.
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Post by kesher on Aug 10, 2015 8:49:54 GMT -6
It IS an awesome cover...
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Post by Vile Traveller on Aug 10, 2015 11:00:14 GMT -6
Those covers (front & back) are beautiful, I hope Mr. Wilson will be providing some interiors for the final version. I'll have to wait until I get to the office printer before giving you detailed feedback, but it looks like a nice, tight little system. Like I mentioned on Facebook, I kind of prefer the earlier period of the Karl May books of my youth but I bet I could hack that pretty easily with this, predominantly single-shot rifles and muskets should slot in smoothly from a cursory glance. You wouldn't consider, you know, a Karl May / James Fenimore Cooper supplement, would you? I like the low page count but maybe you could add in a few more archetypal wild west critters - mountain lions, wolves and snakes spring to mind. Are you planning to add any more background detail? Not that the book really needs it as you can easily get that stuff from any reference book, so maybe an "Appendix N" is in order. I'll send you a mark-up when I get the chance.* * Which may be a little while because we're moving campus this week and I'm working from home while my wife recovers from an operation.
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Post by rastusburne on Aug 10, 2015 15:20:30 GMT -6
I've tried downloading this three times and keep getting a corrupted file that won't open. That's too bad. Email me at coreyrwalden@gmail.com and I'll send you a PDF directly. Similarities/differences to Boot Hill: I tried to capture the "vibe" and feel of Boot Hill, even if it is a departure from it mechanically. For instance, I really like Boot Hill's lethality which I have attempted to reproduce within Tombstone. Tombstone is very lethal. Pick your fights wisely, or you'll end up dead! In the expanded options I've added some tables reminiscent of Boothill's combat system. That is, you roll dice and consult a chart to determine what happens to a character. The standard mechanic differs however, as it is based around a 3d6 system versus target number. Another design goal was emulating the simplicity of B/X, which I feel I've been pretty successful with. You could honestly create a character on the fly if you wanted. There is "levelling" but it provides gradual increments, rather than ridiculous powers. A crocodile or a grizzly could still waste a skilled gunslinger if they were surprised. Michael, yes, I have a bunch of commissioned art from Mr Wilson. I'm waiting to get more feedback and testing before finalising the product. The artwork has really added something special to the project in my opinion. Another design goal was creating that modularity you speak of. The ability to slot in your own ideas is important, so I would your ideas are easily mixed in. I will definitely be adding more creatures in the full version. The playtest version only includes a few to get the reader started. But making up stats for creatures should be pretty easy anyway. As for supplements, who can say at this point! I don't want to get ahead of myself, so baby steps right now
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Post by Vile Traveller on Aug 10, 2015 19:26:07 GMT -6
I really like Boot Hill's lethality which I have attempted to reproduce within Tombstone. Tombstone is very lethal. Pick your fights wisely, or you'll end up dead! It's been a while, but back in the 80s we played quite a lot of Wild West games with a variety of systems (and we were all avid gun freaks at the time). If I remember correctly research led us to believe that gunfights were not that directly lethal, especially with the rather low-powered handguns of the era, but medical treatment was generally poor so a lot of people tended to die afterwards. Still had the same effect in that it made people reluctant to get into fights they were unlikely to win, but it also allowed the option of survival if you got to a good doctor on time (also a common trope in the movies). That element turned out to be a very useful trick up the referee's sleeve.
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Post by kesher on Aug 10, 2015 19:37:33 GMT -6
Yes! I second that!
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Post by rastusburne on Aug 11, 2015 0:47:41 GMT -6
I really like Boot Hill's lethality which I have attempted to reproduce within Tombstone. Tombstone is very lethal. Pick your fights wisely, or you'll end up dead! It's been a while, but back in the 80s we played quite a lot of Wild West games with a variety of systems (and we were all avid gun freaks at the time). If I remember correctly research led us to believe that gunfights were not that directly lethal, especially with the rather low-powered handguns of the era, but medical treatment was generally poor so a lot of people tended to die afterwards. Still had the same effect in that it made people reluctant to get into fights they were unlikely to win, but it also allowed the option of survival if you got to a good doctor on time (also a common trope in the movies). That element turned out to be a very useful trick up the referee's sleeve. That sounds about right. I know the bullets/guns used in the Civil War were gnarly because they would often shatter a limb or infect, especially with spiraled barrels. I imagine immediate medical expertise would have been key, like you say.
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Post by Vile Traveller on Aug 11, 2015 3:26:29 GMT -6
To elaborate a bit on that point, the frequent need for "the doc" meant characters could never become completely lawless adventurers, which did happen a couple of time in our early Boot Hill games because we were just beginning to experiment with play outside the dungeon. That was quite good for keeping the game more challenging. Anyway, this looks like it has a lot of fun potential in it, I'll give it a more thorough going-over before I talk more!
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Post by franchise on Aug 14, 2015 19:38:57 GMT -6
This looks really cool. I'm going to try and download it now, to take a more in-depth glance at it. I love wild west role playing games.
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Post by Vile Traveller on Aug 15, 2015 1:50:10 GMT -6
It's going to be a while before my office printer is back in action. They are now installing the new data cables (that should have been in place in June) on the 3rd floor and working their way up - our office is on the 5th floor ...
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Post by rastusburne on Aug 15, 2015 1:53:47 GMT -6
I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts Michael Sorry to hear about the printers.
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Post by battlebrotherbob on Aug 25, 2015 14:44:11 GMT -6
My Lulu hard copy should be here by Saturday at the latest. I look forward to it.
Question, how close to B/X does it cleave? For animals could you just dig through your old copies if the B/X rules, or clone of choice. That might be a touch more helpful. Or very helpful if you wanted to do a Doomtown/Deadlands hack.
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Post by strangebrew on Aug 26, 2015 21:15:38 GMT -6
I looked over it a bit briefly, but I like it a lot. I've wanted to run a West game for awhile, and this would be right in the sweet spot rules-wise.
One suggestion would be to change the Holy-Roller class to a "Doc" class. That would remove the whole supernatural component and be more in line with the genre in general. The Doc class could improvise treatment to recover d3 hit points, or d6 if he has the medical bag (from the equipment list, which normally heals d3 by itself, so theres precedent for non-magical healing).
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Post by rastusburne on Aug 30, 2015 0:03:07 GMT -6
My Lulu hard copy should be here by Saturday at the latest. I look forward to it. Question, how close to B/X does it cleave? For animals could you just dig through your old copies if the B/X rules, or clone of choice. That might be a touch more helpful. Or very helpful if you wanted to do a Doomtown/Deadlands hack. Mechanically it is not really similar to B/X. I've tried to emulate the feel of B/X however. That is, an easy to play RPG wth high lethality.
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Post by rastusburne on Aug 30, 2015 0:05:08 GMT -6
I looked over it a bit briefly, but I like it a lot. I've wanted to run a West game for awhile, and this would be right in the sweet spot rules-wise. One suggestion would be to change the Holy-Roller class to a "Doc" class. That would remove the whole supernatural component and be more in line with the genre in general. The Doc class could improvise treatment to recover d3 hit points, or d6 if he has the medical bag (from the equipment list, which normally heals d3 by itself, so theres precedent for non-magical healing). I actually played around with a doctor class for awhile. I ended up ditching it because it wasn't really working for me. I like the Holy-Roller personally so that will be staying. But based on your suggestion I may revisit the doctor for the full version.
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Post by Vile Traveller on Aug 31, 2015 18:53:30 GMT -6
Okay! Printing! Get back to you soon!
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Post by Vile Traveller on Sept 26, 2015 19:28:11 GMT -6
Okay, I'm back! Hey, I just spotted my name in the credits - thanks. In general, be careful of orphaned words or lines of text in the final layout. The below are in the order that the points appear in the text. Table of Contents
Page numbers need to be aligned. Introduction
Under "Dice Conventions" - dice is plural, die is singular (this text uses dice for both). Chapter 1
I find it confusing listing example names for all cultures together. I like the D&D 5E approach for humans, where they have separate male/female lists for different cultures. I hope you reconsider adding "Doc" to the quick-play list and moving "Holy Roller" to Method B. Would you consider calling the "Folk Hero" a "Gunslinger" instead? It seems more in line with western terminology to me. Or maybe "Lawman". I'd make rigged dice or cards optional for "Gambler", some might rely on skill or Outrageous Fortune alone. How about "Gunslinger" instead of "Outlaw", then he could be good or bad. Not sure "Soldier" is the most obvious trope for Method A, although fine for Method B. Maybe "Cowboy" is missing here? Be consistent about clothing under the equipment for Method A characters. Either detail major items (in which case someone needs a duster!) or don't mention it at all - "clothing" doesn't really add meaningful detail. Under Method B is where I'd add Soldier and Holy Roller and others - you could go beyond 6 here. I think the Skill Points section is unclear, I read it that you can always add one or both skill points gained to any skill up to its maximum. I'd also put the page reference of the skill points chart here, or actually move the whole chart here to avoid flicking back and forth.
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Post by rastusburne on Sept 26, 2015 19:52:08 GMT -6
Thanks for your feedback Michael. I'll be working on updating some things this week.
Intro
My understanding is that dice can be both singular and plural. I may be incorrect however.
Chapter 1
Separating the names is a good idea. I will amend that. I'm pretty happy with the present archetypes (including names), but I have certainly considered adding a Doc to the list. I have added a Quick Play for each archetype (Quick Plays are essentially pre-gens) so the Doc would be in addition to the Holy-Roller. The Folk Hero kind of encapsulates a few tropes — think Wild Bill — but they have a wide reputation or mythology associated with them. Regarding the idea of a "gunslinger", a soldier, an outlaw, or a folk hero could be known as one so I have avoided labelling one particular background with this name. Historically "cowboy" had somewhat negative connotations. My vision of the Soldier is more aligned with a civil war vet, or a union soldier.
Your point about rigged dice and cards is very valid, I'll amend that.
Noted about the clothing descriptions!
Yes, I'll re-work the Skill section to make it more understandable. Each Grit beyond 1st you essentially have 2 skill points total to spend in any skill. Thus, you could spend 1 on gunslinging and 1 on health, 2 on health, or whatever combination. Just as long as it does not exceed the maximums listed.
Again, thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate it. Those are some great suggestions. (I wrote my reply in a bit of a rush, so I hope it makes sense.)
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Post by Vile Traveller on Sept 26, 2015 21:26:47 GMT -6
It's a fun read, I'm kind of blurting stuff out as I go so some of it may be more opinionated than anything - in other words, this is just "for your consideration". As a general thing, there are instances of American and British spelling, e.g. "defense" (US) vs. "armour" (UK). I tend to stick to one or the other for consistency (all right, I use British spelling everywhere). Chapter 1: 4. Skill PointsI'm not comfortable with the term "Skills" because it covers so many different things including Health, Personality, and Will Power. How about something more generic, like "Abilities" or "Attributes"? In the list you write "Gunfighting", elsewhere it's "Gunslinging". Also, Gunslinging doesn't seem right when applied to bows or thrown weapons, nor Brawling for tomahawks and spears. I know the idea is to keep skills down to a minimum, and I'm not happy with alternatives either ... Melee and Missile? Hand-to-Hand and Projectile? Under "Defense", do you really need to reference "Armour Class"? I think it's fine without. 5. Weapons & ProvisionsI'd leave out the sentence "Historical realism has been forfeited ..." as it sounds unnecessarily negative. You might also want to add something to the effect that Judges can always allow other goods & services at their discretion and for an appropriate price. There seems an uneasy balance with generic weapons and ammo - not sure what the cure would be, but I would tend to either detail weapons a bit (not a lot) more, or leave out ammo altogether. Also, not sure you need 3 different types of shotgun. I find the weapon descriptions a bit long and hard to read, especially given the brevity of other text. Maybe a few paragraph breaks would be enough. Clothing (in the Provisions Chart) seems a bit superfluous unless you have different types (e.g. fancy, trail, etc.). Bridle and Harness could be rolled into Saddle, or maybe have Riding Saddle and Pack Saddle. Why is there a Miner's Kit and also separate Pick and Shovel?
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