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Post by Porphyre on Jun 1, 2015 14:34:23 GMT -6
Today, as I found myself at work in a closed local during a power shortage, I had some thoughts about the importance of light sources in dungeons. I noticed that the question in the games I played (as player or DM) was always handwaved: either the torches were taken for granted, or some diffuse light (phosphorescent fungi?), or some small openings. I suspect that hollywood movies are to blame: you never see caverns in full darkness -for obvious reasons (see the scenes in Moria in the Fellowship of the Rings : even before Gandalf lits his staff).
Actually, without some artificial light source, a subterraneaneous dungeon would be utter darkness. But the consequences of this aren't actually detailed in U&WA (neither are the effects of a Darkness spell).
Ulterior editions make it a -4 adjustement to hit rolls, Armor class and saving throws and reduced speed. But that seems too lenient to me; that is the same adjustements that AD&D makes for fighting invisible foes, but it(s not the same thing to oppose an invisible adversary in a visible set and being totally blinded. Ther still is other risks: - you can more easily accidentally hit nearby allies - you might stumble and fall - dropped items (see Surprise rules) are almost impossible to retrieve - henchmen Morale is more likely to crash
Other thoughts ?
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Post by talysman on Jun 1, 2015 14:44:27 GMT -6
I think my solution for both blind characters and those in complete darkness is that attacks are made as a Level 0 character and every combatant, friend or for must roll a die at the same time the attacker rolls damage; whoever rolls a match is the target. Ties go to the slowest character, or those that tied roll again, with the lowest result indicating the unlucky target.
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Post by derv on Jun 1, 2015 16:03:13 GMT -6
I've given this a little thought in the past, but never adopted any changes. The rules can be read to imply that there is some advantage to moving in the darkness. If you're moving around with a lantern or torches, you're giving up all chance of surprising monsters you encounter. But, it seems like utter foolishness to me to try and navigate unfamiliar ground without light. Sure, monsters can do it- they have infravision. I'm inclined to either give wandering monsters automatic surprise for 2 move segments or, otherwise, give them surprise on 1-3 on d6 for up to 3 move segments. PC's would not have a chance of surprising the monsters. It presents a wierd situation if there isn't surprise, though, with the PC's in pitch dark. The encounter starts with a sighting distance from 20-80 feet away I guess the PC's hear a noise getting closer....Plip plop, plip plop, gurgle gurgle.
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Post by Porphyre on Jun 2, 2015 13:20:33 GMT -6
"The end comes soon. We hear drums, drums in the deep."
"They are coming"
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Post by scottenkainen on Jun 4, 2015 12:22:06 GMT -6
After 20+ years of gaming, I still find darkness conditions difficult to referee in combat. In lighted conditions, you're visualizing and describing a combat that isn't actually taking place. In darkness conditions, you still have to visualize the same combat, but you can't describe it. It's like another layer of complexity to wrap your head around.
~Scott "-enkainen" Casper
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Post by howandwhy99 on Jun 7, 2015 10:40:06 GMT -6
Darkness does not preclude sound or touch, but it does divide the party. Here's my suggestions:
1. Remove any miniatures from the map in front of the screen and use them as a gameboard hidden behind it. Now its up to the players to remember where their characters were.
2. Allow Player/Characters with darkvision to see the board, but not tell others except aloud (as their character). I'd limit them to 1 minute descriptions. Plus I have a house rule that these races require 1 minute/1 Round to regain their night vision.
3. Initiative will likely be necessary for some Players action attempts. Initiative is rolled separately, by character. Ditto if any players are playing more than 1 character. NPCs too, (and they roll Morale due to being cut of from their leader, as likely to start the need for initiative rolls as any other).
4. Actions are written privately on a card by each player (just like in the combat system).
5. All movement actions should be handed to the DM. Then describe those sounds for other players. -Remember- combat is loud when it breaks out, so blind characters aren't going to be able to make out even close up action sounds.
6. Just like always, resolve actions per the map behind the screen. Current locations, facing, movement across the board. Who bumps into whom. -4 to all strike attempts. Possible tripping, falling, (self impaling?) saves, etc.
Sound and verbal communication are usually still possible. If everything goes dark, the party can still talk to coordinate actions somewhat. So it's the best and fastest way out of this conundrum. It's not the end of the world.
I mean, it would be far worse if the players lost both sight and sound, right? Like falling into dark water? (Did someone say suffocation rules?)
Of course any trailing/spying monsters which can see in the dark will probably take advantage of the party's weakness to begin any steal/kill/assassinate actions now. Not being in the nimbus of light their eyes take no time to adjust.
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Post by Porphyre on Jun 8, 2015 9:04:16 GMT -6
I mean, it would be far worse if the players lost both sight and sound, right? Like falling into dark water? (Did someone say suffocation rules?) Of course any trailing/spying monsters which can see in the dark will probably take advantage of the party's weakness to begin any steal/kill/assassinate actions now. Not being in the nimbus of light their eyes take no time to adjust. Or being "silenced" by a spell
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raisin
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 100
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Post by raisin on Feb 9, 2016 4:41:46 GMT -6
Actually, the answer to this is in the title as far as I'm concerned. I keep track of the time and of how much more a given torch will give off light, and even warn players when only one turn or so is left so that they can prepare another light source. If for any reason, a character (or the party) is in total darkness inside a dungeon (or the underground, which is basically the deeper levels of every dungeons in my campaign world), I merely state that "it is pitched dark, you are likely to be eaten by a grue" and start counting from ten. If they light a torch between ten and four, everything's fine. Three or Two and they "feel something huge and fanged retreating into the darkness", One and they must save vs Petrification or see something utterly horrible with thousands of jagged teeths and eyes everywhere and aaaargh, get eaten by a Grue. Zero and one of them vanish. If they still don't light torches, they keep on getting eaten.
Zork had a wonderful (horrible?) influence on how I do dungeons (which is, weird, dangerous and sometimes wondrous places, but governed by different laws than the surface world -if the surface is governed by Neutrality and Law has its own, heavens-like planes, Chaos has the Underground).
TL;DR : my players always keep track of light sources because they know I do and there are Grues in the Underground.
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Post by sonicracer100 on Jan 9, 2020 8:55:30 GMT -6
I like to do something similar to the above, albeit not as descriptive. I tell my players that failure to keep a light means you just die in the darkness. You get lost, unable to see your map, you wander aimlessly only to succumb to what beasts seem to lurk in all corners of encompassing darkness.
Might infer more of a darkness inhabiting creature like the above though instead of saying you just die.
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