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Post by derv on May 15, 2015 19:31:40 GMT -6
I’ve come to realize, while developing our campaign’s move towards the broader spectrum of strongholds and all the elements that go along with it, particularly the idea of siege warfare, that I do not want to get bogged down in trying to make my campaign fit a particular miniatures game system.
Traditionally, in wargames the whole idea of running a campaign was to create unique situations where scenarios could develop organically through decision making. Then the players would move to the table top to resolve any conflicts that arise. It was not as concerned about the unfolding of a saga to be told to future generations, though there could be ongoing rumors and news within such a game. For example, two players happen to be marching their forces across a map with some objective in mind, possibly unaware of the other, when they come in contact at some juxtaposition and decide if the ground is favorable for their forces to move to the table top and resolve the conflict. The scenario would consequently have impact on the wider campaign and how future scenarios develop. Much of the work is done by the referee and most of the game is done behind the scene in order to create the scenarios.
Even though I will likely use Chainmail to resolve these battles in our campaign, I wanted to create something more flexible that could adopt any rule system, should the need arise. This became more apparent as I looked at conducting sieges. I’ve been working out different approaches to this problem and have decided to adopt a more abstract method in running my campaign before going to the table top.
The campaign move will be measured in weeks. I continue to use the “Turn” as stated for all levels of play in my game. In other words, there are two moves to the turn.
My campaign year will be broken into four Seasons that contain 13 weeks each and will begin in the Spring. At the beginning of the year, all revenue and expenses will be calculated. The players will then decide how they want to invest their wealth. They will also decide if they intend to make any campaign excursions and how they are going to manage their man power. The referee will determine random events for the year at this time (I’ve decided to limit it to 4 possible Seasonal events) and make any out of the ordinary adjudications that might be necessary. At the same time, any treaties and negotiations can take place between each of the players and/or the referee, if desired. Weather conditions will be developed as needed when it has an impact on the game in some way (I will be adopting a modified Chainmail weather table for this).
Players will be deciding on the following choices for their campaign moves (or they can remain in their strongholds and patrol their territory):
Invasion and Exploration: basic movement of large and small armies outside their claimed territories.
Assaults, Raids, and Sorties: open field conflicts resolved with miniatures.
Siege: Direct assault on another stronghold. Man power and resources will be of critical importance for a successful siege. This is further broken down into the following phases, any of which can be adopted or not for the situation. The ultimate goal of a siege is to create a breech that allows play to move to the table top, forces surrender of the besieged, or causes the attacking forces to retire. The defenders will be able to attempt counter measures for all phases, including disrupting the attackers supply chain.
-Blockade: cutting off all outside support to a strong hold. -Bombardment: the implementation of siege engines in creating a breech or successful escalade to the inner courts. -Mining/sapping efforts and draining or filling of moats: The ultimate goal is to make it possible to create a breech. -Attrition: This is the final phase for each turn regardless of methods adopted. It randomly determines the results of desertion, disease, tragic death and injury, starvation, and natural death for both sides of the conflict.
Attrition is determined by rolling d6 x troop multiplier on the table below:
D6= Defender: Attacker 1=3:1, 2=2:1, 3=1:1, 4=1:2, 5=1:4, 6=1:6
Defender under 50= x1 50-250= x10 251-500= x20 501-1000= x50 Over 1000= x100
Once provisions run out, the attrition rate is doubled for that side.
The besieged must surrender if their force falls below 1/4 of its original number and they are outnumbered by 2:1 or more.
Blockading force receives half the attrition rate only if no other activity is being taken.
If others are interested in this, I'll put up more details and continue to post further developments of how things pan out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2015 11:33:37 GMT -6
Ever consider looking at King Arthur Pendragon? It already has a similar system, including abstraction of battles.
Of course, if you WANT to write your own stuff, rock on.
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Post by derv on May 16, 2015 15:19:50 GMT -6
I'm open to adopting things from any game system, but I have never played nor read the Pendragon rpg.
Mostly I want to abstract everything except battles. When it comes to sieges, I don't want to get bogged down in trying to smash down walls, bash in gates, or tear down towers, and I'm accepting the advice found in Chainmail and WoM.
"At best, sieges are difficult to handle." CM p.22
"Mines and Counter-mining: These operations are only possible to conduct on paper." CM p.23
"Generally speaking they are long and rather tedious affairs, and it is suggested that if they must be conducted the major part be done with paper and pencil. That is, the plan of the city being invested be drawn in triplicate.....Only when a successful foothold has been gained atop a wall or in a breech should play go to the table top." WoM p.16
By abstracting most of this I am also freeing myself up to use whatever miniature rules I choose for the circumstance.
All the phases I presented above also allow for various scenarios to develop should a player choose. For instance, the Blockade may seem at face value to present the fewest opportunities. It is really just a waiting game while blocking all access to a stronghold. But what player is truly going to wait while their forces are reduced to nothing through attrition? Instead they will send out sorties to disrupt the attacking forces supply chain, sabotage seige engines, ambush seperated units through hit and run, and get the word out to their allies to bring reinforcements.
If time was truly pressing in a game so that I would have to abstract mass combat as well, I'd probably just use the Microlite20 approach of applying Combat Scale which takes existing stats of figures and then multiplies or divides damage based on the units size. It's quick and to the point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2015 16:13:13 GMT -6
We used to run sieges in Chainmail frequently. Mines and countermines were not the only thing going on. Escalade is actually quite effective, if bloody.
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Post by derv on May 17, 2015 13:42:22 GMT -6
No doubt. I include escalade as part of the Bombardment phase. I have quite a bit more detail for conducting sieges then what I included above, which is really just an outline.
Assuming there are no obstacles that need to be overcome first, engines such as towers and ladders require moving into contact and maintaining contact for entire turn without being countered or destroyed, followed by one resolved turn of combat to clear the walls at that point of access. Point of impact or access is assumed to represent a roughly 10 square foot area. The use of ladders adds +1 to attrition rate.
Further detail is also included under the campaign move of Assault, Raid, or Sortie. This also includes pre-siege attempted surprise assaults on strongholds.
Roll as normal for surprise. Adjustments should be made if surrounding area is patrolled by defender and there is the possibility for counter surprise/ambush with defending players forces. Determine number of troops attacker wants to commit to assault. Set up these figures no closer then 1 move (or 12”) of gate and walls. 1= 1 free turn, 2= 2 free turns before gate is secured. If surprise is unsuccessful, these troops lose initiative and are subject to missile fire until they can move out of range or to cover.
As you can see, such a tactic can quickly move to the table top to storm the castle. There is always the potential that some of the garrison have been bribed too, which might allow one more turn to gain access to the inner court without a prolonged siege.
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Post by derv on Jun 28, 2015 12:04:51 GMT -6
Assault on Haskra’s Stronghold
Haskra has invested 5160 gp and 60 days to construct his stronghold. In addition, hirelings cost him 5990 gp for the first two months until construction was completed. This included the cost of arms and armor. Prior to this it took his men a week to clear and assess the immediate and surrounding 42 miles of land. The resources discovered include timber, stone & gravel, fresh water, and fishing. He has since discharged the timber workers and engineer, but hired on an additional 65 henchmen (some to replace those lost in battle). Currently, his support and upkeep is 615 gp per month for 110 men-at-arms and his second in command, as well as a smith and horses. He has future plans of a construction phase 2 & 3 that will enhance his defenses when funds permit. For the year, I generated one random special event that will occur in the Fall > “fame-your reputation spreads“. This turned out to be a positive outcome that I yet have to see how it will fit into the campaign and what it will specifically entail.
Season: Summer Week One
Day One Weather: Clear
Haskra prudently maintains patrols of his small holding who bring news of a large party of orcs infiltrating from the Southern approach by the Volkvangar River. A surprise assault is avoided and the alarm is raised. The river is only 3 miles distance. Unfortunately, Haskra is not present at this time. He is busy leading the majority of his forces (80 men-at-arms) on an exploration through the Cromdar Mountain Ranges 2 weeks travel to the NE by foot (118 miles). In his absence he has left his second in command, Sylwolf, with a small garrison. Sylwolf has ordered the gates barred and the palisade walls and tower to be drenched with water. This is to be repeated each day of the assault.
Commander: Sylwolf- 3rd level Swordsman; Chain, shield, helm, sword+1, med. warhorse. Garrison: 20 LF archers; leather, helm, short bow, hand axe. 10 HF men-at-arms; chain, shield, helm, spear, sword.
During Haskra’s early exploration and clearing of the land in the Spring of the year, his forces ran into a tribe of orcs who they had to roust out. Most retreated into the unfamiliar and unchartered forests. A memorable nemesis who escaped was one Kaindreg. He seems to be holding a grudge.
Commander: Kaindreg- 4th level Anti-hero; Chain & battle axe, warg. Forces: 60 HF orcs; mix of armor and melee weapons (equivalent to chain and mace). 10 LF goblin sappers; leather and picks (treat as battle axe for MtM).
Haskra’s stronghold is a simple wooden Motte and Bailey. It is situated on a natural 10 ft. high bluff. Each 10 sq. ft. of structure can sustain 5 points of damage before a breech is created. The fort contains 4 weeks of stored provisions (1 month upkeep paid in advance) and a well within the central tower. The land naturally slopes 100 feet to the front (South) where the area is cleared. Dense forest surrounds the North, East, and West sides that lead to hill country.
On arriving at the fort, Kaindreg’s forces set to work creating a permanent camp. Their numbers are insufficient to create a blockade, so Sylwolf dispatches two men on horse with a message for Haskra of the attack on the stronghold. If lucky, on horse they may be able to track down and catch up to Haskra in a weeks hard travel. In the mean time, Kaindreg demands the forts surrender, promising to make all their deaths quick. Otherwise, he has a slow and painful punishment in mind for their obstinacy.
Day two Weather: NC
At dawn, the stronghold wakes to the sound of pick and shovel. The sappers are at work digging trenches at a distance of 180 feet from the fort. These are visible and covered with timber for protection until intersecting the natural bank at 80 ft. from the fort. This takes 10 men 1 day to trench 100 feet. From this point on the sappers begin to tunnel at a rate of about 66 ft./ day (or 100 feet per 1 ½ days). Unaware to the strongholds occupants, the sappers split up into two teams of 5 who begin two tunnels covering 33 ft./day. At this rate, it will take one week (with a day to rest) to create two breeches beyond the palisades. Sylwolf knows he does not have the man power to spare and decides to wait instead of diverting man power to counter mining. He does put 3 large caldrons of water to boil as a defense if by chance he can intercept the sappers or against possible forces storming the walls.
Attrition: 1:4 (1 of Haskra’s archers and 4 Goblin sapper’s) Dispatched rider’s: By the end of the week one rider is lost in the mountains, the other safely intercepts Haskra with the message. It will take Haskra two weeks to return. He sends the messenger with haste for Sylwolf to hold out until reinforced if he can. This message will not be received by Sylwolf until week 3 at best and Haskra’s forces will not arrive until week 4.
Week Two
Day one Weather: cloudy (no penalty for orcs due to sun light)
Turn one The 6 LF sappers move to the right tunnel with 10 HF orcs while 20 more HF orcs move to the left tunnel. Three abreast can exit at a time from the tunnels by ladder. The remaining 30 HF orcs formed into three units prepare to storm the walls with ladders and torches. These troops enter the range of the archer’s missile fire. They suffer three casualties.
Sylwolf’s men become aware of tunneling near the front gate and within the stable (1-2 on d6). Surprise from the tunnels is averted. Five HF go to each point with caldrons of scalding water to throw down the tunnels (2 with the caldron and the other three with spears extended), while four LF archers position themselves at a short distance to intercept any that make it through. The remaining archers are stationed along the walls and tower. The third caldron of scalding water is taken to the platform over the gate.
With the breeches made, we switch over to the 1 minute combat turn. Originally, I had intended this to move to the table top, but a lack of time has not allowed me to finish painting my orc and goblin miniatures, let alone whip up a rough model of the stronghold. So, maybe next time. This time around, it’ll have to be on paper. I still used Chainmail MtM to resolve combat.
Turn two Orcs gain the initiative and burst out of the last layer of soil within the stronghold. At the same time, their remaining forces storm the gates and walls. It will take a full turn for these troops to reach the walls and erect their ladders. The following turn three at a time can ascend to the top and resolve melee. These troops become subject to another volley of missile fire. They suffer seven more casualties. Yet, their morale holds. The archer’s on the wall pull out their hand axes for melee.
Round one At the tunnel breeches, Sylwolf’s HF strike the first blow since they are fighting from above. Since the orcs won initiative, I ruled that three entered the inner court at each point and melee should be resolved. At the same time, the cauldron’s of scalding water were poured down upon the next unexpecting orcs. This has a similar effect to boiling oil without any flaming or puddling- essentially killing 2 men ascending each ladder and stunning the third for one turn.
The HF spearmen will strike first on the first round with the orcs returning two blows. The orcs then receive first blow position on the subsequent rounds.
Three HF spearmen are killed in the stable and two are killed near the gate. Only one orc is cut down by the gate.
Turn three It will take a full turn for more orcs to ascend ladders in the tunnels, but all 6 ladders are ascended along the walls. Two orcs attempt to set the gate on fire with torches. This will take a full turn a 7+ on 2d6. There is still 2 orcs inside by the gate and 3 in the stable. Sylwolf’s men gain initiative.
Round 1-2 Stable: One orc is ran through and another spearman is killed. The remaining spearman is killed the following round. Inside gate: Another orc and spearman is brought down. On the following round the third orc and another spearmen are killed. Only one of Sylwolf’s HF remain. He will retreat toward the archer’s position on the following turn. Walls: Archers lash out with handaxe killing two orcs. As a result, one of the ladders is pushed away from the wall, killing another and stunning the third for a turn. In return, the archers suffer four casualties and the orcs scramble onto the platform. The other archers move in to fill the gaps.
Turn four Sylwolf maintains initiative. Three more orcs ascend into the stable as one steps out of the building. More orcs ascend into the courtyard by the gate. These four are in the open and receive missile fire at close range. All four are eliminated. The front gates were successfully ignited and will burn for 2 turns of damage. These same orcs will attempt to maintain the fire until the gates are destroyed. Round 1 Walls: One orc is killed and his ladder successfully pushed away, killing a second and stunning the third for one turn. Two more archers killed. Round 2 One orc killed and two more archers brought down. Round 3 Two orcs killed and the remaining archers on the walls slaughtered. Orcs have free access to scale the walls.
Turn five The orcs start to pour into the stronghold. Kaindreg relishes the slaughter about to take place. The orcs move down to unbar the burning gates. Three at a time pour out of the tunnels and stable. Sylwolf’s forces have been reduced to ¼ of it’s original strength, but there is little chance for surrender. Kaindreg establishes initiative and rushes his troops toward the tower.
Five of the orcs are cut down by missile fire before they close in on the archer’s. Round 1-2 All four of the archer’s and the last HF in the court yard are immediately bludgeoned to death as Sylwolf helplessly watches from the tower.
Kaindreg orders the entrance to the tower blockaded and the tower set ablaze. A few more orcs are killed by the remaining archers on the tower as they withdrawal, throwing torch to the outer buildings and palisades. Kaindreg watches gleefully as Sylwolf perishes, engulfed by fire atop the tower. Before he leaves, he skewers the heads of some of Haskra’s troops on their spears as a warning. The smoke from the stronghold can be seen and smelled far in the distance. The siege has cost Kaindreg dearly, but revenge has been sweet. But will Haskra be able to recover from his losses?
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premmy
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 295
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Post by premmy on Jun 29, 2015 9:40:30 GMT -6
I'm open to adopting things from any game system, but I have never played nor read the Pendragon rpg. If you're looking for ideas to pilfer from elsewhere, An Echo, Resounding is an OSR product concentrating on running domains and large-scale warfare, might be worth checking out. Another thing you might like is Gabor Lux's Bulls and Mine Rights. Alas, the latter is only officially available in Hungarian, but I have an abridged translation here (with the author's permission).
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Post by derv on Jun 29, 2015 18:34:26 GMT -6
Thanks premmy. Those are two guys whose work and creativity I respect. I appreciate you doing the abridged translation of Bulls and Mine Rights.
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Post by derv on Jun 29, 2015 18:47:55 GMT -6
Just a few thoughts on the game session I posted Maybe I should offer an explanation on what led up to Haskra’s stronghold being destroyed. Some may look at this as a harsh way of starting out a “domain” level game. Really I just wanted to share the developments since this post first started. I also have another character capable of starting a stronghold, but hesitant to do so because what happens is their character is basically retired from party play and moved to a one-on-one campaign level game with me, the GM. This does not end our player party games with wilderness exploration and dungeon delves and such. Players can continue to run other characters in those games. Character’s like Haskra simply choose to leave the party and strike out on their own, after hiring a small army. Sylwolf was one of his long term retainers who also rose up in rank. All of these characters are still active within the same game world. Who knows, maybe the party characters will end up traveling through Haskra’s territory at some point. This has all been a bit of an experiment for us and I’ve posted a few things on the forum on the subject from time to time- support and upkeep, costs and time of construction, chainmail for skirmish, random events, the campaign move, etc. All of this has been me riffin on what we’ve been leading up to in our game. Now, the utter destruction of Haskra’s stronghold, the death of Sylwolf, the seemingly small garrison, and the fact that Haskra wasn’t even present, may be cringe worthy for starting such a campaign considering the time and expense imposed. Not to mention that it could be a detractor for the other character sitting on the fence about starting a stronghold. No, not really. What happened was Haskra’s player encountered an orc village while clearing his land. This village was surrounded by a wooden palisade much like his own, but no tower. Kaindreg was their leader. Haskra’s men happily and indiscriminately killed 2/3rds of the village before the remnant fled into the hillside forests where Haskra had not yet explored. Then Haskra (and Sylwolf) put the torch to the village after looting it of valuables. So, there’s a little Tit-for-Tat. Since I play low level games where heroes are really considered Heroes, I do not require characters to be name level before starting a stronghold. All that I require is that they have the resources to support it and that they clear all land a distance of 6 miles (1 hex) around it. This is not a true Barony though. It will not attract any inhabitants for one campaign year of stability. Even then, it will only attract 1-2 hamlets of 20-80 people each who will generate a tax revenue of 10 gp per inhabitant. After the second year, 1-4 more hamlets will be established. These hamlets will grow to towns only if a true Barony is created- this requires a character to be name level. Since this is the case, Haskra must be active in producing revenue to support himself during this time through such things as exploration, raids, and trade. The reason Haskra was in the Cromdar Mountain Ranges was because he had discovered weak gold deposits at the mouth of the pass during his clearing period. He was attempting to discover more or it’s source or some other means of gain. As for his garrison being small, I thought it was adequate. Historically, it wasn’t really that small and was about the right ratio of archers to men-at-arms. Though, the short bow proved to be lacking in keeping an enemy at bay from a distance. I also purposely limited the orcs to melee weapons to tip it in the strongholds favor. Really, the assault on Haskra’s stronghold could have gone either way. I’m confident Haskra will be able to rebuild. He still has the majority of his army and now there’s a group of rogue orcs that need to be hunted down.
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