Post by machfront on Apr 21, 2015 2:45:12 GMT -6
I've been thinking of using the standard, most common dungeon rules and procedures for wilderness rules.
Why?
I know it's not technically OD&D but I often consult B/X due to familiarity, etc. In Expert the wilderness rules are oddly scattered.
In it and OD&D the wilderness rules seem a bit disparate and/or not nearly as neat, quick and easy as the dungeon rules.
I'm no fan of dungeon stuff but I've found the rules incredibly useful for a number of reasons and situations. They're structured in such a way that they lend themselves to that (as so many rules in the older iterations are).
I have to say that I ran Tunnels & Trolls for so long and then RISUS for a good while after that I got used to not even thinking about prescriptive rules and procedures for environment(s). I embraced Swords & Wizardry because it actually felt as wild, wooly, wild and loose as T&T but using D&D mechanics which were and ever shall be burned into and part of my being. I so didn't miss the environment rules that I never really even noticed that they weren't there.
Recently, whilst attempting to "build my own" with Holmes as a core for OD&D, aside from (my usual) wishing that Gygax had encouraged the good Dr. to make a full beginner-friendly D&D up to level 10 (which would have only really added about six pages) I found myself looking over the dungeon rules which were summed up in a single column of one page. I thought how, in addition to the booklet being expanded to be self-contained, that wilderness rules were similarly summed up in a single column.
This, coupled with making a small S&W:WhiteBox house rules document and adding both dungeon and wilderness rules and trying to make it as short and sweet as possible*, led me to this...
*Also the fact that I've used even dungeon wandering monster charts, as they're always so present and easy, for wilderness...and dungeon assumptions...that is that "dungeon level 1" converts to portions of the wild near civilization while level 3 or 4 would be deeper into the dark, forbidding wilds. So on roads between towns a party might well encounter bandits and goblins and the odd true monstrosity while far from the safety of even small towns it would be easy to stumble upon ogres and far more strange and dangerous things no one might have ever seen...
Why not make the wilderness rules as short and imminently useful and broad as the typical dungeon rules?
What rules? We all know.
Doors open on a 1-2.
Traps are sprung on a 1 or 2.
Looking for secret doors.
Listening at doors.
Why can't wilderness rules be as easy?
"Ooo!", says I. "They could."
What are doors in a dungeon?
Obstacles.
There are any number of obstacles in the wild. Flooded land, storm-felled wood, paths that simply stop, thorny and dense undergrowth, etc.
What are traps?
Hazards.
There is no shortage of hazards in the wilderness. Natural and 'man'-made bridges that turn out less safe than imagined. Natural dead-falls. Sink holes. The list is virtually endless, really.
What is a party doing while searching for secret doors?
Finding their way. Seeking something specific perhaps?
Search. A lost or obscured path. A landmark. A better or smarter way to continue the journey.
Within this could also be folded searching of another kind: foraging and hunting.
What of listening at door?
Seeking/hoping for a safe(er) passage.
This made me think of Bilbo climbing to the tree tops in Mirkwood. Seeking out a clearing or outcropping. Finding a good place to read the sun or weather.
Observation.
Same rules. Same rolls. Different color.
(this is also sort of inspired by folks who take the original game's seeming assumption that almost everything is an x in 6 chance and so on and expand that to any number of things)
While the existing wilderness rules are not really problematic, for myself they are somehow too separate from the dungeon rules. Dungeon encounters and ranges translate well to wilderness (feet become yards, for example). But the procedures for obstacles and hazards and the like I found I wished likewise were easily as translated which is what spawned this odd, little brain storm.
Has anyone likewise used dungeon rules for other non-dungeon situations and environments? Is this easily workable without losing something that may truly matter, etc? Is it too weirdly easy? Crazy? Dumb? Lazy? Yes. Yes, it's lazy.
Thoughts? Ideas? Improvements? Curse words?
Why?
I know it's not technically OD&D but I often consult B/X due to familiarity, etc. In Expert the wilderness rules are oddly scattered.
In it and OD&D the wilderness rules seem a bit disparate and/or not nearly as neat, quick and easy as the dungeon rules.
I'm no fan of dungeon stuff but I've found the rules incredibly useful for a number of reasons and situations. They're structured in such a way that they lend themselves to that (as so many rules in the older iterations are).
I have to say that I ran Tunnels & Trolls for so long and then RISUS for a good while after that I got used to not even thinking about prescriptive rules and procedures for environment(s). I embraced Swords & Wizardry because it actually felt as wild, wooly, wild and loose as T&T but using D&D mechanics which were and ever shall be burned into and part of my being. I so didn't miss the environment rules that I never really even noticed that they weren't there.
Recently, whilst attempting to "build my own" with Holmes as a core for OD&D, aside from (my usual) wishing that Gygax had encouraged the good Dr. to make a full beginner-friendly D&D up to level 10 (which would have only really added about six pages) I found myself looking over the dungeon rules which were summed up in a single column of one page. I thought how, in addition to the booklet being expanded to be self-contained, that wilderness rules were similarly summed up in a single column.
This, coupled with making a small S&W:WhiteBox house rules document and adding both dungeon and wilderness rules and trying to make it as short and sweet as possible*, led me to this...
*Also the fact that I've used even dungeon wandering monster charts, as they're always so present and easy, for wilderness...and dungeon assumptions...that is that "dungeon level 1" converts to portions of the wild near civilization while level 3 or 4 would be deeper into the dark, forbidding wilds. So on roads between towns a party might well encounter bandits and goblins and the odd true monstrosity while far from the safety of even small towns it would be easy to stumble upon ogres and far more strange and dangerous things no one might have ever seen...
Why not make the wilderness rules as short and imminently useful and broad as the typical dungeon rules?
What rules? We all know.
Doors open on a 1-2.
Traps are sprung on a 1 or 2.
Looking for secret doors.
Listening at doors.
Why can't wilderness rules be as easy?
"Ooo!", says I. "They could."
What are doors in a dungeon?
Obstacles.
There are any number of obstacles in the wild. Flooded land, storm-felled wood, paths that simply stop, thorny and dense undergrowth, etc.
What are traps?
Hazards.
There is no shortage of hazards in the wilderness. Natural and 'man'-made bridges that turn out less safe than imagined. Natural dead-falls. Sink holes. The list is virtually endless, really.
What is a party doing while searching for secret doors?
Finding their way. Seeking something specific perhaps?
Search. A lost or obscured path. A landmark. A better or smarter way to continue the journey.
Within this could also be folded searching of another kind: foraging and hunting.
What of listening at door?
Seeking/hoping for a safe(er) passage.
This made me think of Bilbo climbing to the tree tops in Mirkwood. Seeking out a clearing or outcropping. Finding a good place to read the sun or weather.
Observation.
Same rules. Same rolls. Different color.
(this is also sort of inspired by folks who take the original game's seeming assumption that almost everything is an x in 6 chance and so on and expand that to any number of things)
While the existing wilderness rules are not really problematic, for myself they are somehow too separate from the dungeon rules. Dungeon encounters and ranges translate well to wilderness (feet become yards, for example). But the procedures for obstacles and hazards and the like I found I wished likewise were easily as translated which is what spawned this odd, little brain storm.
Has anyone likewise used dungeon rules for other non-dungeon situations and environments? Is this easily workable without losing something that may truly matter, etc? Is it too weirdly easy? Crazy? Dumb? Lazy? Yes. Yes, it's lazy.
Thoughts? Ideas? Improvements? Curse words?
(Minus the goofy storm vehicle, of course. These guys were on foot or horse, IIRC)