|
Post by Stormcrow on Oct 22, 2015 19:36:58 GMT -6
The trailers seem aimed entirely at nostalgia. It makes me wonder if that's how the movies will play as well.
|
|
|
Post by Falconer on Oct 24, 2015 20:02:20 GMT -6
…and the absence of Luke for most of the movie (as hinted at by various sources, and hinted at again by his absence from the poster) are not particularly engaging. It’s going to be a delicate balance to combine old characters for continuity and familiarity on the one hand, and new characters to avoid a nostalgia-fest (or a fogey-fest, for that matter). I guess they felt Han needed a proper sendoff, because Ford is getting really old, and IMO he’s no Clint Eastwood—he can’t pull off proper action hero roles at his age. Hopefully this doesn’t end up feeling like Indy IV. Blech! But, yeah, it looks like the “From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker” will finally resume in Ep. VIII.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2015 23:42:40 GMT -6
Personally, I am very skeptical that they will kill off Han. It's more like Lucas Arts has been adamant about "Star Wars" being an actualization of what Joseph Campbell called the "monomyth", or rather, "the hero's journey". In that context, it makes sense to make Han a "point of view"-character again, because his story from the OT is the only one not immediately connected to the Jedi/Force/Vader arc: He's the human spectator in a world of superhuman beings, and that makes his principally unbiased perspective sort of valuable.
For a story like the new movie seems to attempt to tell, which starts by inserting fairly random new characters into the established mythology, Han is a great character to link to the old stories, because he doesn't necessarily have all the answers. Luke, in contrast, likely would, which is also why he is likely not appearing all too early in the story.
My personal opinion is also, perhaps Disney wants to wait for the reaction to the new movie before defining all too many details: Like, with Han taking a prominent role in E7, most things concerning Luke and the Jedi are bound to happen off-screen: Is there a Jedi academy? Was there a Mara Jade? Is there a Ben Skywalker? All nothing that needs a definitive solution, and something that can be adapted according to fan reaction. - Not saying that people don't care about what happened about Han Solo in the 30 years after RotJ, but him and Leia's love story won't make or break the setting. Anything concerning Luke likely will.
|
|
|
Post by ritt on Nov 6, 2015 21:44:11 GMT -6
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2015 2:43:15 GMT -6
Adam Driver's first review, and the only one that counts:
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2015 18:15:23 GMT -6
Spoilers coming in, might see the full script tomorrow. Not holding my breath: The old EU handled some stuff way, way better. Like, dramatically better. Whoever applied some of the new changes should not write professionally. The story of the new movie, by itself, seems to work, though. And that is a great relief.
|
|
|
Post by ritt on Dec 14, 2015 18:36:29 GMT -6
Spoilers coming in, might see the full script tomorrow. I think I'll actually try to go in spoiler-free. I'll obviously never be able to be eight years old again, and it's too cold in December to watch the movie at a drive-in sitting on top of my big sister's car wearing my pajamas, so I'm never getting that exact same Spirit of '77 back again... but I should try, ya know?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2015 20:36:28 GMT -6
Just returned from the European/German midnight release.
Without spoiling any of the action, I can say, it seemed like an overall disappointment. The movie starts well, but the final twenty minutes destroy the solid setup.
Basically, the visuals are alright, but the story is beyond saving. It's not in the actors, or in the directing, it's, quite simply, lazy writing.
Think Spiderman 3, or the later installments of the "Pirates of the Caribbean" series. - Sure you can do worse, but you also can do, way, way, better.
Like, reporting live from Germany: This was an unhappy audience, and people made sad faces on their way out of the cinema.
I think, whatever mojo SW had left after the terrible prequels, it is now gone.
|
|
|
Post by barrataria on Dec 17, 2015 16:50:07 GMT -6
Like, reporting live from Germany: This was an unhappy audience, and people made sad faces on their way out of the cinema. I think, whatever mojo SW had left after the terrible prequels, it is now gone. Well that's interesting, because most of the reviews I've seen have been pretty positive. Not that it's a universal guideline, but it includes reviewers I actually trust. Like others, I'm more than a little concerned at the pastiche-y story, if that's indeed what it is. And starting on a desert world and going to an ice world... :/ I was looking forward to some weird sort of planet, akin to some they came up with for the Clone Wars cartoon. Anyway, hoping to get to see for myself on Sunday morning. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by stevemitchell on Dec 18, 2015 12:38:09 GMT -6
SOME SPOILERS!
My son and I went to see the new film last night. We both came away somewhat disappointed. It’s not really a bad movie, in the sense that The Phantom Menace was, but there’s nothing very original or striking in it, either. It moves along at a fairly brisk rate and has some okay action sequences, but overall it just seems to be a patchwork of things we’ve seen before, mostly from A New Hope.
Let’s see, there’s a new version of the Empire called the First Order, complete with stormtroopers for the ground troops (and for all their supposed years of training, they are still the most inept marksmen in the galaxy), while the officers are all played by poncey British actors. There’s a new version of the Emperor called the Supreme Leader. And the Supreme Leader’s right-hand man is a renegade Jedi with a Darth Vader complex.
There’s a new version of the Death Star called the Star Killer. There’s a new version of the Rebel Alliance called the Resistance. There’s a Maguffin chase for a droid (not the familiar two droids, but a new one, so cute and adorable that I wanted to throw up on an Ewok). And there’s a desperate battle to take out the Star Killer at the end, which depends on the usual “one weak point in the defenses” gambit.
The movie ends where it should have begun, with one of the leads finally tracking down the long-missing Luke Skywalker. Turns out Luke had tried to train a new group of Jedis after the deaths of Darth Vader and the Emperor, but one of them turned to the Dark Side (the aforesaid renegade), and the whole experiment went south. So Luke, instead of, you know, being an actual hero and going after the renegade to set things right, decided to go hide away and pout on some remote planet.
|
|
|
Post by ritt on Dec 19, 2015 2:05:37 GMT -6
Spoiler-free quickie review:
THE GOOD:
1) It's a fun, crowd-pleasing romp. I would recommend it to any SW fans, and I think the majority of them would like it. It's made with great reverence towards the original trilogy and hits all the "Fan service" notes. I'd give it a solid B+ grade.
2) We get to finally see a screen version of the Energy Mace from Gamma World.
3) The new characters are by and large pretty cool and make up for the lamentable lack of any memorable or iconic new characters in the prequels (Except maybe Darth Maul).
THE BAD:
You know how when a super-hero comic gets a couple of decades old they sometimes hit a cannibal point where every "New" character is a son/clone/alternate reality version of an existing character and every "New" storyline is a sequel/re-hash/spin-off of a classic storyline and the whole thing just becomes a sort of closed loop stripping itself for spare parts to keep going? Well...there's some of that feeling here.
PEDANTIC NITPICKING:
1) "Snoke" sounds like a f***ing Harry Potter name.
2) The old lizard woman with the goggles looks like a leftover from the prequels.
3) Ren's mask is really boring, not iconic like Vader's. Then again, considering the character's limited personality, that may have been the point.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2015 10:15:34 GMT -6
SPOILER WARNING ...
No, seriously. Spoilers. Don't read till you've seen the movie.
I desperately tried to avoid spoilers before the movie came out. I didn't watch a single trailer so I had no idea about certain story elements (for example, the presence of the Falcon was a surprise to me. Which it wouldn't have been if I had even glanced at the movie poster). I think because of this the movie was more enjoyable for me.
But, I have a question: Is the new EP 7 now a better setting for a Star Wars RPG than the original trilogy? I think it might be as now we don't really know the future of the galaxy. It's wide open. Plus, in the original SW, the Empire already has control of the entire galaxy. Here, the First Order, is ascendant. This adds another element to use in a story as it's still possible to win a battle against FO forces whereas the only method of fighting the Empire was guerrilla raids or sabotage.
It's like it's 1977 again.
|
|
|
Post by cadriel on Dec 19, 2015 15:39:02 GMT -6
SPOILERS But, I have a question: Is the new EP 7 now a better setting for a Star Wars RPG than the original trilogy? I think it might be as now we don't really know the future of the galaxy. It's wide open. Plus, in the original SW, the Empire already has control of the entire galaxy. Here, the First Order, is ascendant. This adds another element to use in a story as it's still possible to win a battle against FO forces whereas the only method of fighting the Empire was guerrilla raids or sabotage. It's like it's 1977 again. I think it's better than the original trilogy, though not better than the pre-Empire original Star Wars was.
|
|
|
Post by Finarvyn on Dec 19, 2015 20:31:28 GMT -6
I liked the movie a lot. Sure, some of the stuff seemed a little retread ... but I thought it was a move in the right direction compared to the CGI mess that was I-II-III. I think the problem that they have is if it's too much like what we've seen folks will say "we've seen it before" and if it's too different folks will say "that's just not Star Wars." It's a catch-22 situation. Looking forward to SW VIII.
|
|
|
Post by ritt on Dec 20, 2015 10:47:32 GMT -6
MILD SPOILERS
The more I think about the movie, the more interesting the character of Kylo Ren gets. In a universe of fairy tale morality, straight up good and absolute evil, he seems to a very modern Columbine shooter-style young psychopath.
|
|
randyb
Level 3 Conjurer
Posts: 92
|
Post by randyb on Dec 20, 2015 12:24:03 GMT -6
MILD SPOILERS The more I think about the movie, the more interesting the character of Kylo Ren gets. In a universe of fairy tale morality, straight up good and absolute evil, he seems to a very modern Columbine shooter-style young psychopath. CONTINUING THE SPOILER "I'm the grandson of Darth Vader! I should be the most powerful!" Not said by him, but otherwise revealed in the mutual interrogation session.
|
|
|
Post by ritt on Dec 20, 2015 12:36:46 GMT -6
MILD SPOILERS The more I think about the movie, the more interesting the character of Kylo Ren gets. In a universe of fairy tale morality, straight up good and absolute evil, he seems to a very modern Columbine shooter-style young psychopath. CONTINUING THE SPOILER "I'm the grandson of Darth Vader! I should be the most powerful!" Not said by him, but otherwise revealed in the mutual interrogation session. SPOILERS CONTINUE He looks like a dollar-store cheap Chinese knock-off of Darth Vader, because he's a just a punk wannabe Darth Vader cosplayer. Did he lose his hand in that final lightsaber fight against Lu... oops!, I mean Rey, on the Death...um, I mean Starkiller Base? The editing was uncharacteristically poor in that scene and it was kinda hard to tell exactly what happened.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2015 4:01:24 GMT -6
OOOOH SPOILERS I think the main strength of this movie is to not be directed by George Lucas, to be quite direct. The prequels, especially in direct comparison, pale against this one as un-movies. My main problem with this last one is that the story is cruel against old fans, and thoroughly random when one day of research would have made it charming. The dialogue is witty, yes, but especially John Boyega acts basically like Theo Huxtable in space; not a racist portrayal, but surely stereotypical. I am marveled that nobody called out Disney for this one yet. - Loved the character, though. My godchild, eight years of age, who has quite probably never seen a black person in real life yet, is hanging a Finn poster in his room. That, my friends, is how world peace is made. Daisy Ridley's character could have some potential, but her story arc is too rushed; the movie would have needed ten more minutes, especially in the last two thirds, to make her story relatable. SW's appeal, believe it or not, is mainly because of the pacing. Even GL, with his dirt-poor scripts, understood that in the prequels. Abrams clearly does not. Han and Leia, completely wasted. So, the big conclusion of the OT is, they divorced off-screen? Come on. Han, in particular, acts mostly as a guardian/plot device to the new couple of protagonists, and does remarkably little that reminds me personally of his OT character. His death scene felt particularly forced. My biggest concern was the story, though: Basically, the old EU is respected until the Bantam/Del Rey switch in 1998. - The New Republic exists, and an uneasy peace has been made with the Imperial Remnant, errh, "First Order". Like much Han's and Leia's story, most of Disneyverse's Star Wars is left vague on-screen, mainly, I think because, as I wrote above... The movie itself focuses on retelling, in the usual "soft-reboot" ways that we know from "James Bond" and the Zelda video game series, a variation of events fans already know, which is, in Star Wars' case, the Darth Caedus storyline. This was almost to be expected, especially because the story has strong connection to the three areas of SW canon that Disney has so far kept mostly unaltered: KOTOR, The Clone Wars 3D cartoon, and the Marvel Comics SW run from the early 90s. - A solid outline, one might think. If, and that's the lamentable verdict on this movie, if the story wasn't turned into a toy commercial: Han's new ride. Maz Kanata. Rebel base. Blix-Wing. Death Star 3. Obi-Han. Jedi temple gone Bard's Tale. - Too much, too rushed, too few explanations, and too few love for detail. In all that, the viewer's focus is so divided that it not only becomes increasingly difficult to care for what's going on. At the conclusion of the movie, you find yourself detached from the action, because the steps of the story are utterly foreseeable, yet there is no real build-up on the way to them. Like, who really thought Han would survive the scene once he stepped onto that bridge? Who thought the rebels diving into the next Death Star corridor would not make it out? What WAS that Death Star thing, even? ...TLDR: The corporate sequel from hell, I think this movie will still entertain, but I personally find it difficult to care for however the story might go on in the inevitable sequels. It's a solid movie for kids though. But as an adult, looking for a more dignified continuation of the original trilogy, I personally turn to the old EU's novels, especially those written by Timothy Zahn.
|
|
|
Post by ritt on Dec 22, 2015 17:41:30 GMT -6
I thought Harrison Ford was majestic. He got all the best lines and gave a sorely needed gravity to the film, similar to what Alec Guinness and Peter Cushing did back in '77.
|
|
|
Post by geoffrey on Dec 22, 2015 18:38:16 GMT -6
I saw The Force Awakens today, and it left me cold. Rather than feeling like a Star Wars movie, it felt like a generic action flick to me.
I'm one and done. I won't be paying to watch it again.
|
|
|
Post by keolander on Dec 22, 2015 23:25:08 GMT -6
Seen it twice so far and will probably see it a few more times in the coming weeks. I loved it and really wanna crack open my Star Wars D6 books and play! The First Order and The Resistance make for great RP opportunities, more so than the Expanded Universe's New Jedi Order Era (which this basically replaces).
|
|
|
Post by barrataria on Dec 22, 2015 23:53:28 GMT -6
Seen it twice so far and will probably see it a few more times in the coming weeks. I loved it and really wanna crack open my Star Wars D6 books and play! I've done that, and there have been threads all over other boards about the same thing or, more amusingly IMO, about whether to use this or that newfangled game system. Zombies! Supers! Some thing with proprietary dice.. but how to convert it?!?!?! Just don't... so much wheel reinvention when the tasty original is right there ripe for the picking. The First Order and The Resistance make for great RP opportunities, more so than the Expanded Universe's New Jedi Order Era (which this basically replaces). That EU stuff was generally terrible, but IMO there's basically nothing different about this "new" period than there was in the post-Ep. IV period. Rebels vs. Empire. People can just get out the old d6 adventures and change a few details and they'll be fine. Oh, and welcome to the board, funny that you ended up in this little corner of the internets to discuss SW! As for the film itself, I agree with others herein that the story is weak and the villains are very flat. I'm not sure how Gollum got to be 20 feet tall, or why that gal's stormtrooper armor was silver... but they were all very derivative or forgettable. They may as well have just had the war go on 30 years and have and Emperor's clone in the lead anyway. Maybe with any luck they really all died at the end and the next movie will be about trying to bring the Hutt crime empire to justice or something. I liked the sets, loved that it was filmed with actual people and terrain, enjoyed the starship and vehicle animations immensely, and really loved Rey and the way Daisy Ridley played her. Her performance is certainly better than Hamill's in the original or Hayden Christiansen (or Jake whatshisname, god help us) in the prequels. If she turns out to be a Skywalker, she might end up the badass pilot/fighter/space wizard that was in the script in 1976. The crowd I watched with (on a Monday morning at 9AM no less) pretty much ate it up, applauding the opening crawl and the end of the movie. I didn't, but I could have.
|
|
|
Post by Finarvyn on Dec 23, 2015 7:19:04 GMT -6
I've seen it twice so far and intend to see it again. The first viewing was just "wow" and the second allowed me to look more at the details. I think the big problem is simply that fans have huge expectations and somehow want to turn a space-fantasy serial into great literature. Also, they were facing the Catch-22 of "it's too derivative" versus "it's not Star Wars" wherein if they change too little or too much then folks will complain.
As far as the EU goes, I still love my Timothy Zahn but it's clear that Abrams' vision isn't to follow Zahn's lead so it's dangerous to assume that anything not in the "canon" is true.
|
|
|
Post by ritt on Dec 23, 2015 14:57:37 GMT -6
I had fun at The Force Awakens, and I'll probably catch it again, but did it feel like the original '77 Star Wars? No. It got closer to catching the Spirit of '77 than the prequels did, and it maybe even got closer than Return of the Jedi did, but no.
I don't even think Empire felt like the original Star Wars. In fact, I strongly doubt anything ever again will feel like the original Star Wars (Even George Lucas couldn't duplicate the alchemy, with creative carte blanche and hundreds of millions of dollars at his disposal). Heck, Star Wars as the film currently exists (The "Special" Edition) doesn't even feel like Star Wars. And if something does actually come along some day that does feel like the original Star Wars, it'll probably be something unexpected that no one saw coming, and it probably won't have the Star Wars brand name on it.
Based on what I've seen at the various schools I work at, I think the typical kid today probably considers Marvel's Avengers franchise to be "Their" Star Wars.
|
|
|
Post by Finarvyn on Dec 23, 2015 16:36:47 GMT -6
I strongly doubt anything ever again will feel like the original Star Wars (Even George Lucas couldn't duplicate the alchemy, with creative carte blanche and hundreds of millions of dollars at his disposal). This. When I first saw the original Star Wars in 1977 it blew me away because it was so much better than anything out there. It had special effects that were miles above other scifi movies of the era, had a musical score that was miles abouve other scifi movies of the era, and so forth. Whether or not it was "original" wasn't questioned because it just blew everyone away with the total package. Nowadays folks have seen 3E and IMax and other stuff like that before, so the new Star Wars can't possibly exceed everyone's expectations. All it can do is to offer a fun story and (hopefully) build on the previous SW universe in a way that is entertaining.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2015 18:50:17 GMT -6
They had quite a task with six old characters they had to update to the current time as well as four new characters to introduce. No other SW movie has had anything close to that big a logistical challenge. It really brings to light what a mistake the prequels really were. It's just too late for those OT characters. Too much time has passed. I wish Leia and Chewie had died as well. Wipe the slate clean so the series can move forward.
The real test for me will come next week when I take my 9 yo daughter whose never seen a SW movie before.
|
|
|
Post by barrataria on Dec 26, 2015 19:30:11 GMT -6
Based on what I've seen at the various schools I work at, I think the typical kid today probably considers Marvel's Avengers franchise to be "Their" Star Wars. When I first saw the original Star Wars in 1977 it blew me away because it was so much better than anything out there. It had special effects that were miles above other scifi movies of the era, had a musical score that was miles abouve other scifi movies of the era, and so forth. Whether or not it was "original" wasn't questioned because it just blew everyone away with the total package. Nowadays folks have seen 3E and IMax and other stuff like that before, so the new Star Wars can't possibly exceed everyone's expectations. All it can do is to offer a fun story and (hopefully) build on the previous SW universe in a way that is entertaining. I was thinking about these exact things as I watched the previews at both SW screenings I attended. All of which were superhero movies, post-apoc movies, fantasy and sci-fi computer RPGs, and ads for SW tie-in products. 40 years ago most other sci-fi movies were the stuff later made fun of on Mystery Science Theatre 3000 or campy un-sci fi stuff like the Batman or Hulk or Wonder Woman TV shows (even though I watched all that stuff). SW was the only film that was as much fun as the comics or rather MORE fun than the comics. Assuming the spinoff films and the next two episodes are as good as this film, I will not complain. But between the SW cartoon, the extra films, and a whole new trainload of EU books... and the filming of the DC universe, and the Disney/Marvel movie parade, the market is awash in this stuff. Plus Harry Potter, GoT, Hunger Games... it's a great time to be a nerd, but while waiting to hear that magical music again it struck me just how much different the entertainment world is at the moment with regard to fantasy/sci-fi stories. I certainly don't miss the Jennifer Aniston movies, but I do wonder how long it will be before Hollywood dollars start chasing something else. Oh, and back to the original thread... I loved it MORE on second viewing. Still not hot on the bad guys, and the story is still... not much of a story, but it was much easier to appreciate everything excellent. I'll try to see an IMAX screening this week just to appreciate the eye candy a bit more.
|
|
mindcontrolsquid
Level 4 Theurgist
"There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man..."
Posts: 118
|
Post by mindcontrolsquid on Dec 26, 2015 19:47:31 GMT -6
Really, this new film is probably the best film we could have gotten under the circumstances. Sure, the plot is a little bare-bones and there are some questionable moments of narrative convenience, but really the craft on display here is something else. It feels like there's very little that could have been cut out of this film; the editing and pacing in this one are both superb, I feel. And I couldn't help but feel a bit envious of children these days, who will never know what it was like to grow up with the prequel trilogy and all the dashed hopes it represents.
In short, this feels so much more like a Star Wars film than the last three, and it understands what it needs to do to be a Star Wars film. It gives me that same impression I get from watching the originals: that the viewer is merely watching one story out of many, that they are simply passing through a universe filled with nuance and complexity which can only be glimpsed in the time allotted. That's what was so special about Star Wars, that it was a means of capturing the imagination, especially in a kid. I'll never forget watching the Death Star trench run and feeling my heart pounding out of my five year-old chest. Force Awakens may not quite have the same effect these days, but it sure as hell feels exciting, and that's a big step up.
Incidentally (maybe tiny spoilers here? I don't know), I noticed that a lot of characters in this one have monosyllabic names. Finn, Rey, Poe, Hux, Maz, Snoke, etc. Certainly makes them easy to remember; I suspect that this was purposeful.
|
|
|
Post by derv on Dec 26, 2015 20:47:21 GMT -6
I went to the theater with all my kids to see this last night. Eh, it was okay. I did feel like the story line involved alot of retreading, though. The end was kinda like, huh? But, I must say that Mark Hamill looks good in a beard. The dude should have been sporting one long ago
|
|
|
Post by Vile Traveller on Dec 26, 2015 22:06:45 GMT -6
But, I must say that Mark Hamill looks good in a beard. The dude should have been sporting one long ago Slipstream!
|
|