Talysman on purple worms

[geoffrey]

I love this blog post: 9and30kingdoms.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-king-of-old-school-monsters.html

Here's the text:

Wednesday, October 31, 2012

The King of Old-School Monsters

It's Hallowe'en, so I really ought to talk about monsters. I'd like to share my thoughts on the king of monsters -- well, kings of monsters, since it's not a single uniform type -- in the original books. No other monster in Volume II, Monsters & Treasure, is quite as dangerous as this one. Sure, others may have fancy powers, like the troll's regeneration or the vampire's many powers. But this one has the most hit dice, and thus the best combat ability. And two special attacks that will kill you dead very quickly, if you aren't careful.

And there's something in the description in the book that most of us miss. They are everywhere just below the surface. Everywhere. I know I don't use them enough, myself, and I bet you don't, either. Certainly not enough to qualify as "everywhere". We're too worried about pitting low-level PCs against such a tremendous force.

No, it's not the dragon. You probably thought "dragon" first, because as the old cliché goes, it's "Dungeons & Dragons", so the dragon is the most fearsome embodiment of what adventurers rally against.

But it's not the dragon.

It's the purple worm and its relative, the sea monster.

Look at the purple worm first. It has 15 hit dice, more than the most powerful dragon in M&T. It doesn't have armor that's as good as a dragon, and it's slower and can't fly. It has a deadly poisonous stinger instead of a visually-spectacular breath weapon. But it's a pure embodiment of hungry hate. Dragons? They sleep too much, and spend their waking moments gloating over their treasure. Purple worms can have treasure, but they don't care about it. In fact, the book doesn't say, but the treasure is probably inside the worm. Good luck getting that with mere trickery.

Why would it be inside the worm? Because its most powerful attack isn't its instant-death sting. It swallows ogres whole. Gotten yourself swallowed? You're dead in 6 turns (presumably "combat turns".) You're gone, no Raise Dead possible, in 12 turns.

And the sea monster is the aquatic equivalent of the purple worm. M&T tells us that the small sea monsters have stats identical to the purple worm. Larger ones have double or triple hit dice. Up to 45 hit dice! I'm guessing things that size can swallow dragons as well as ogres.

A lot of campaigns go with dragons as their quintessential monster, the apex predator of D&D. These dragons usually get beefed up, made more intelligent and given powerful fear auras, turning them into diabolical masterminds. Others go with an undead theme and place the lich or a super-vampire at the top, again as a mastermind. A few go with demons and devils, or a Lovecraftian equivalent, again as masterminds. But few people remember that Lovecraft's most powerful entities were mindless and chaotic, the embodiment of entropy and decay, or that he included a vision of the final fate of Earth: consumed by dholes, the giant, mindless (and possibly purple) worms.

[talysman]

I swear that I was not actually on purple worms when I wrote that.

[talysman]

The following was a follow-up that used to be on my blog:

Vadwyrm (Rare Gargantuan Worm)

1 to 2; 60+3 dice, Heavy Armor, Move 6, 15 dice damage, swallow whole, overrun, acid trail

25-foot diameter, 60-foot long worms that burrow through solid rock. They only directly attack giant-sized creatures or larger, but smaller creatures may be indirectly harmed as the worms indifferently plow through them. Make a single attack roll against the best armor type in a group of creatures, with success meaning that the worm rams through the group; then, adjust the roll for each individual creature's armor and other defenses to see which victims are struck, with a hit 4 or more points above the target number meaning that victim is swallowed whole. Victims swallowed whole take 15 dice damage from acid (save for half damage) and will die automatically in 6 rounds unless protected in some way; those that aren't swallowed are knocked prone and take 5 dice of damage as the worm's crushing weight passes over them. The acidic slime they leave behind continues to cause 4 dice of damage per round for up to 6 rounds, both to those covered with the slime and those who come in contact with it afterwards.


Some things can survive inside a vadwyrm, including up to 20 lumps of gold, silver, and copper, with each lump weighing 1 to 20 pounds. A creature trapped inside a vadwyrm can hack an opening in the thick flesh with any edged weapon, but it takes 4 to 9 rounds to do so.


The vadwyrms are slowed to Move 3 when tunneling through rock, but otherwise seem unaware of the obstruction, as if they were merely swimming through thick molasses. They tunnel in a straight line for 100 to 200 feet, then turn right or left (d20x10 for distance, minimum 100, turn left on odd, right on even.) Every time they turn, roll a d6; on a 1, they also dive down one level, and on a 6 they climb one level. When they breach the surface, they will travel 1 to 6 hexes in a random direction, then burrow down again. Periodically, they will lay eggs; the hatchlings will carve out a cluster of 5 to 30 "rooms" randomly connected by 5 and 10-foot diameter tunnels before tunneling down into the rock. These "vadtunnels" are quickly appropriated by other denizens of the underworld, who modify and expand them to form dungeon complexes.

("Vad", incidentally, comes from an entry in the Jargon File. It's an anagram of "ADV" that was used on some old mainframe computers to disguise the Adventure program; it also apparently became used to mean "explore underground off-limit areas like steam tunnels". It's the latter sense that inspired me to create worms that carve out underground complexes.)

[Scott Anderson]

absolutely and as it should be. Dragons are rad, but you can fight dragons in any dungeon or wilderness, and sometimes several in one adventure.

THE PRUPLE WORM is the apex predator. It picks it's teeth with tarrasques.

[Porphyre]

But a dragon can fly his way out of Purply's reach ...

[talysman]

Underground?

[Red Baron]

Purple worms can't cast disintegrate.

[talysman]

Neither can most dragons. None in M&T, in fact.

But you're looking at this wrong. It's not so much what a purple worm can do, but that it does so relentlessly and without reason. You can't convince the purple worms to stop devouring the world.

Even if dragons can do fantastic things, even if they stay out of caves and fly away whenever a purple worm surfaces, the worms will eventually swallow everything edible. What kind of world can dragons rule, if there is nothing left but the worms they flee?

Dragons might even be the product of an experimental defense program to fight back against the worms. An experiment that backfired, since now mankind must fight dragons, and the worms are still there.

[Red Baron]

Apr 5, 2015 15:12:41 GMT -6 talysman said:

Neither can most dragons. None in M&T, in fact.

Gold dragons can use up to 6th level spells.

[Scott Anderson]

Memo to future self: make sure to have characters build castles in the clouds.

[talysman]

Apr 5, 2015 16:47:53 GMT -6 Scott Anderson said:

Memo to future self: make sure to have characters build castles in the clouds.

Note to self: Skyworms. ISAGN.

[geoffrey]

Apr 5, 2015 15:12:41 GMT -6 talysman said:

It's not so much what a purple worm can do, but that it does so relentlessly and without reason. You can't convince the purple worms to stop devouring the world.

Even if dragons can do fantastic things, even if they stay out of caves and fly away whenever a purple worm surfaces, the worms will eventually swallow everything edible. What kind of world can dragons rule, if there is nothing left but the worms they flee?

Indeed.

Couple that with the following three notes:

1. Purple worms lurk "nearly everywhere just beneath the surface of the land" (M&T, p. 15)

2. "Purple worms never check morale and will always attack." (M&T, p. 15)

3. Purple worms have an intelligence score of zero. (AD&D Monster Manual, p. 80)

Think about that. The awful things are everywhere, always hungry, always aggressive, fearless, and utterly unreasoning. In a way, that out-Lovecrafts Lovecraft. In a way, that's scarier than anything in the Cthulhu Mythos in the AD&D Deities & Demigods Cyclopedia. It comes pretty close to hopeless. The only answer is to exterminate the beasts. But how?

[Vile Traveller]

But has no one ever remarked on the unusual proportions of purple worms? Grubs, more like. Which begs the question ... what happens when they grow up?!

[talysman]

Apr 5, 2015 23:16:08 GMT -6 Vile Traveller said:

But has no one ever remarked on the unusual proportions of purple worms? Grubs, more like. Which begs the question ... what happens when they grow up?!

"He was not blind to the perils of the attempt... Yaddith would be a dead world dominated by triumphant bholes, and that his escape in the light-wave envelope would be a matter of grave doubt... The starting-day was a time of doubt and apprehension... There was an appalling seething and darkening of the day, and a hideous racking of pain. The cosmos seemed to reel irresponsibly, and the other constellations danced in a black sky... Below him the ground was festering with gigantic bholes; and even as he looked, one reared up several hundred feet and levelled a bleached, viscous end at him."

--- H P Lovecraft and E Hoffmann Price, "Through the Gates of the Silver Key"

[geoffrey]

Apr 5, 2015 23:16:08 GMT -6 Vile Traveller said:

But has no one ever remarked on the unusual proportions of purple worms? Grubs, more like.

50' long and 10' in diameter (IIRC). The proportion is indeed more like a grub.

[geoffrey]

Apr 6, 2015 0:48:03 GMT -6 talysman said:

"He was not blind to the perils of the attempt... Yaddith would be a dead world dominated by triumphant bholes, and that his escape in the light-wave envelope would be a matter of grave doubt... The starting-day was a time of doubt and apprehension... There was an appalling seething and darkening of the day, and a hideous racking of pain. The cosmos seemed to reel irresponsibly, and the other constellations danced in a black sky... Below him the ground was festering with gigantic bholes; and even as he looked, one reared up several hundred feet and levelled a bleached, viscous end at him."

--- H P Lovecraft and E Hoffmann Price, "Through the Gates of the Silver Key"

Were you thinking of that passage or of another when you wrote the following: "[Lovecraft] included a vision of the final fate of Earth: consumed by dholes, the giant, mindless (and possibly purple) worms"?

[talysman]

Apr 6, 2015 0:58:33 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

Apr 6, 2015 0:48:03 GMT -6 talysman said:

"He was not blind to the perils of the attempt... Yaddith would be a dead world dominated by triumphant bholes, and that his escape in the light-wave envelope would be a matter of grave doubt... The starting-day was a time of doubt and apprehension... There was an appalling seething and darkening of the day, and a hideous racking of pain. The cosmos seemed to reel irresponsibly, and the other constellations danced in a black sky... Below him the ground was festering with gigantic bholes; and even as he looked, one reared up several hundred feet and levelled a bleached, viscous end at him."

--- H P Lovecraft and E Hoffmann Price, "Through the Gates of the Silver Key"

Were you thinking of that passage or of another when you wrote the following: "[Lovecraft] included a vision of the final fate of Earth: consumed by dholes, the giant, mindless (and possibly purple) worms"?

I think there is more than one such passage, but all I could find now was that one, which is not actually about Earth, but an alien world.

I thought there was an unfinished fragment or possibly a poem, but a quick skim through The Fungi from Yuggoth and the prose poem Nyarlathotep turned up nothing, unless I missed it.

[tetramorph]

If they lurk everywhere, just below the surface of the earth, seems to me we need to add at least the possibility of encounter in wilderness.

And it is not just the demon hoards or undead armies which threaten the PC's freshly claimed barony.

[Deleted]

This particular monster has changed quite a bit. It seems to be related to Tolkien somehow but I don't know enough to say for sure.

GRAYTE WOURMES – PART V: THE MOTTLED DRAGON

“Of doubtful species, the Mottled or Purple Worm must be included in any study despite the possibility that it is not a true dragon. The creature has no wings and no internal form of weapon unlike other dragons. Yet its body shape conforms otherwise to the kind as does its general behaviour. The Purple Dragon has a venomous sting in the tip of its tail, one drop of which is enough to fell an Oliphant. It is sly and treacherous. The species is found only on the Islands Umbar.

Gygax, 1970

But it doesn't seem unintelligent.

[Vile Traveller]

Pretty sure by the time it made its first appearance in D&D, though, it was basically a Dune kind of giant worm with an added sting in the tail. And a bit shorter in relation to its girth.

[Deleted]

Apr 5, 2015 23:16:08 GMT -6 Vile Traveller said:

But has no one ever remarked on the unusual proportions of purple worms? Grubs, more like. Which begs the question ... what happens when they grow up?!

Three words.  Dune Sand Worms and without fremen to teach you how to handle them.

[Anathemata]

Apr 6, 2015 18:24:16 GMT -6 @mi98c10 said:

Apr 5, 2015 23:16:08 GMT -6 Vile Traveller said:

But has no one ever remarked on the unusual proportions of purple worms? Grubs, more like. Which begs the question ... what happens when they grow up?!

Three words.  Dune Sand Worms and without fremen to teach you how to handle them.

But which raises questions about other biomatter associated with them--what about their bile? (Water of Life, anyone?) What properties are held by their skin? Carcasses? Dung? Eggs, if any? Are there organs that make them worth seeking out? Do they die in graveyards, leaving behind incredibly valuable metal deposits? Or do they tunnel near to the surface, their decaying bodies causing a sudden and inexplicable boost in the production of intelligent (and carnivorous) plantlife?

[geoffrey]

Apr 6, 2015 21:13:38 GMT -6 Anathemata said:

But which raises questions about other biomatter associated with them--what about their bile? (Water of Life, anyone?) What properties are held by their skin? Carcasses? Dung? Eggs, if any? Are there organs that make them worth seeking out? Do they die in graveyards, leaving behind incredibly valuable metal deposits? Or do they tunnel near to the surface, their decaying bodies causing a sudden and inexplicable boost in the production of intelligent (and carnivorous) plantlife?

purple ivory:
tenfootpole.org/ironspike/?p=859

[geoffrey]

In my OD&D supplement, CARCOSA, I included only 6 monsters from M&T. One of them was the purple worm.

[otiv]

Apr 4, 2015 8:28:01 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

It's the purple worm and its relative, the sea monster.

Look at the purple worm first. It has 15 hit dice, more than the most powerful dragon in M&T. It doesn't have armor that's as good as a dragon, and it's slower and can't fly. It has a deadly poisonous stinger instead of a visually-spectacular breath weapon. But it's a pure embodiment of hungry hate. Dragons? They sleep too much, and spend their waking moments gloating over their treasure. Purple worms can have treasure, but they don't care about it. In fact, the book doesn't say, but the treasure is probably inside the worm. Good luck getting that with mere trickery.

Wow. It's relative, the Masher from Supplement II: Blackmoor, is even bigger at 20HD!
Of course, even that isn't as huge as the might whale from the same book.