Backgammon/Chess/Cribbage

[scalydemon]

Haven't seen a poll here in a bit.

Pick your favorite game from among these 3. Interested to see what game wins.

Vote now! vote often! (actually you can only vote once )

[tetramorph]

Just don't know cribbage. Backgammon is great and all. But for me, chess is the king of games. My kid beats me at it regularly!

[kingofelfland]

I like chess but I rarely have time for it and it's not really a pick up kind of game. I've always wanted to get cribbage but, alas, no. Backgammon is the clear winner then.

[makofan]

I founded the backgammon club at our high school when I was there, but for me it just doesn't hold the depth of chess

[Deleted]

My grandfather taught me to play cribbage when I was a 4 or 5. He played it for a penny a point while on a submarine in WWII.

I think that backgammon and chess are better games, but my vote is for cribbage.

[Finarvyn]

I picked chess. I've played backgammon a few times and enjoyed it, but I can't recall how to play offhand. Never played cribbage.

Checkers should have been on the poll as well.

[kingofelfland]

Backgammon is a two player, shorter version of parcheesi.

[scalydemon]

I played some backgammon last eve with my brother-in-law's father. He hadn't played since the late 70's, but is a mathematician/statistician by trade (works for the Nuclear agency) and degree and took me to task quite badly. Gammoned me in both games. I thought myself an OK player but I got killed. He was nice enough to at least conduct after action reviews with me each time to discuss the strategy he used and how I can improve.

[dukeofchutney]

vote cribbage. I have played all three. I'm a bit bored of western chess (quite like shogi and chinese chess), backgammon, but cribbage more are fresher to me.

[tkdco2]

I never played cribbage. I've played backgammon and chess, but I'm not good at either one.

[Deleted]

I actually consider myself a pretty avid chess player. Always have a chess board standing in my kitchen, for between the meals.
Totally missed the world championship this year, though.

[Starbeard]

I haven't played cribbage since I was a youngster, nor have I touched a backgammon board in over a decade.

One of these days, though, I'm going to try my best to play at least one game of each backgammon variant copied into the Libro de los juegos.

[krusader74]

There's a very interesting parallel between Chess and D&D---

The modern game of chess developed from miniature wargames in medieval times in much the same way as D&D developed from medieval-miniature wargames in modern times. Allow me to explain...

It's important to begin by noting that while predecessors to chess were known in Europe by 997AD, the rules we know today evolved between the 6th century AD and 1850. The game originated in India in the 6th century AD as Chaturanga. At first, it spread eastward through China, Korea and Japan. Then it was brought west to Persia during the Islamic conquest (638-651AD) where

it was greatly shaped by the Muslims, who used it for strategic purposes to defend themselves during the Crusades of the Holy Lands. The Muslims observed the techniques that the crusaders used to fight, and thus modified the game according to their needs. A basic attack formation, for example, involved rows of infantrymen supported by cavalry, which charged through the lines to slash at enemy warriors on either side of their horses. This is most likely why, in a modern game of chess, knights can jump over pawns (or infantrymen), and proceed three squares and then attack on one side or the other. A knight on horseback would not attack an enemy head-on.

In a modern game of chess, rooks, or castles, stand in the corners of the board to represent the round towers with spiraling staircases that crusaders built throughout the Middle East to protect their conquests. When the Muslims referred to them in their own plans, however, they were most likely stationary on the board. What is now called the bishop piece was most likely used by the Muslims to represent the Christian church, as it was a threat to their own religion. Since the Christian church closely advised the kings attacking the Muslims, it is no wonder that the bishop piece stands directly by the king piece now. During this time period, the queen did not stand beside her king as she does now on the chessboard, because queens were seldom if ever present during a battle. It was the king's general who instead took this position. The queen as a figurehead became more important during the Elizabethan era, when there was no King of England, so her presence on the chessboard may have appeared around this time.

Quoted from the article The Medieval Roots of Chess by Eric G. Kolber

[krusader74]

There are several notable examples of Chess in the Medieval European arts. The earliest known European chess reference comes from the Latin poem Versus de Scachis (translated by Google) in 997AD.

Here is an illustration of chess players from the Carmina Burana (~1230AD); that manuscript also has a depiction of people playing Tabula (a predecessor of Backgammon) and Knucklebones (AKA "dice")---



My personal favorite is this ceiling fresco from the late middle ages (~1480s) by Albertus Pictor in the Täby Church, Sweden, depicting a man playing chess with death (note they're playing on a 5x7 board!)---



This mural provided the inspiration for Ingmar Bergman's 1957 film, The Seventh Seal. In that film, Antonius Block is a crusader who returns to Sweden to find it being ravaged by the plague. Block encounters Death and challenges him to a chess match in order to forestall his demise---

[scalydemon]

Cool stuff krusader74.

And, don't look now, but cribbage appears to be mounting a charge. Don't call it a comeback!

[tkdco2]

I just played online backgammon. First time I've won playing online. The computer almost always gets the better dice rolls.

[scalydemon]

Dec 7, 2014 17:11:04 GMT -6 tkdco2 said:

I just played online backgammon. First time I've won playing online. The computer almost always gets the better dice rolls.

I would play you online head to head sometime if you are up for it. I am in the PST time zone (west coast USA).
I got the 'true backgammon' app on the kindle and have been playing that some lately

[tkdco2]

Dec 7, 2014 21:52:08 GMT -6 scalydemon said:

Dec 7, 2014 17:11:04 GMT -6 tkdco2 said:

I just played online backgammon. First time I've won playing online. The computer almost always gets the better dice rolls.

I would play you online head to head sometime if you are up for it. I am in the PST time zone (west coast USA).
I got the 'true backgammon' app on the kindle and have been playing that some lately

Which app do you have? I only have a desktop, but I'm online a lot.

[scalydemon]

Hi the kindle app I use is only for playing against a bot.

Msn has a free online tool to play head to head backgammon live.
I am on my phone at the moment, but if you google 'msn backgammon' you will see it. I downloaded it.

If u wanted to try it out I have some time free this evening - or another time

Thanks

[tkdco2]

Hopefully it's compatible with Chrome. I have IE, but it's slow.

[grodog]

Nov 27, 2014 8:13:24 GMT -6 makofan said:

I founded the backgammon club at our high school when I was there, but for me it just doesn't hold the depth of chess

Agreed, but while I love a good game of chess, I rarely play it anymore. Backgammon, however, can be played a few times over lunch, which for me makes it the perfect quick pick-up game

[krusader74]

Dec 13, 2014 10:15:49 GMT -6 grodog said:

Nov 27, 2014 8:13:24 GMT -6 makofan said:

I founded the backgammon club at our high school when I was there, but for me it just doesn't hold the depth of chess

Agreed, but while I love a good game of chess, I rarely play it anymore. Backgammon, however, can be played a few times over lunch, which for me makes it the perfect quick pick-up game

There are a few options available to reduce the length of a chess game in order to squeeze it into a lunch hour. I'm wondering if anyone has tried these approaches and what they think?

• Limit pieces: Skip the game and go straight to the endgame. For example there are King and pawn-only endgames as well as pawnless endgames. Though these are mostly used for teaching/learning, they may also be used for entertainment.
• Limit board size: Play on a 5x6 board instead of the standard 8x8 board. Besides 5x6, there are also 6x6, 5x5, 4x5, 4x4, 3x4 and 3x3 variants described here.
• Limit the clock: Get a digital game clock and play fast chess. You could, for example, set the time controls to 30-minute-per-side and thus fit a game in a lunch hour. In that time, whoever's game clock flag falls first, makes an illegal move or get's checkmated loses the game.

[scalydemon]

My buddy, who I did some board & wargaming with over the Holiday has a wife who is a complete non gamer. The only game she will play is cribbage for some reason. They sometimes play 3 handed cribbage, which I'm not sure if I have tried before or not.

As far as a quick lunchtime type game I would still prefer backgammon to fit that bill. Or this game which is perfect for that niche www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/760/battle-line

[DungeonDevil]

Of those three I'd have to pick Chess. I grew up with it since a wee whelp. I tried Backgammon 30+ years ago, but it bored me to tears. Cribbage I have never played. Right now I play a lot of cardgames and Weiqi. Seems like folks now don't play older games like that anymore: everyone is glued to the idiot tube, the Netflix or playing video games. People seem more sedentary and apathetic to try new things (even if they are old games). Perhaps I'll have to get a group together to play shove ha'penny or dwyle flonking.

[premmy]

Just to be different:

Hnefatafl. The game of vikings.

[Morandir]

I only have the vaguest notion of how to play cribbage, and while I enjoy chess I love the combination of randomness and skill in backgammon so that gets my vote.

And premmy: it's great to see another fan of Hnefatafl! Not many people I know have ever heard of it.

[krusader74]

Dec 7, 2014 17:11:04 GMT -6 tkdco2 said:

The computer almost always gets the better dice rolls.

I've seen similar charges leveled by players against many backgammon apps. Here are some review excerpts from a popular MS Windows 8 backgammon app:

Ridiculous Rolls by PC: This game would be entertaining if it were not for the outrageous number of doubles and "timely" rolls by the computer. It is a bit on the BS side of reality. The roll of the dice is definitely not random. (posted 12/31/2014 by W H)

CPU player cheats: Funny how the CPU uses doubling cube just before it rolls a double. It does this with incredible consistency... (posted 12/29/2014 by J S)

The PC wins 53% of their games with multiple doubles when bearing off... (posted 9/12/2014 by T B)

I'd rate this negative stars if I could: Going to uninstall this app. Company claims dice are random however this can't be (for the following reasons):... (posted 3/26/2014 by D D)

Rigged: ... (posted 11/14/2012 by C P)

I'm not sure what the incentive is to cheat. The app is free and there's plenty of competition. There have been a couple of flaws discovered in widely used pseudo-random number generators, such as the bug in the RANDU algorithm. So it could be a programming error rather than intentional rigging.

But the good news is that there are statistical tests that can be done to discover irregularities in the dice rolls. The simplest is the chi-squared test: Each outcome of 1 die throw should come out 1/6th of the time. There is also a "runs test" to check the frequency of runs (e.g., rolling doubles over and over again); and autocorrelation tests to ensure past rolls doesn't predict future rolls.

The chi-squared test is the place to start. The first step is a pilot study to collect data to compute the "effect size", in this case Cohen's w. From the effect size, significance level, and statistical power, one then computes the required sample size N, collects data, performs the test, and makes inferences.

I've tried a couple Backgammon apps and haven't noticed any symptoms of cheating. But if you want to record your computer opponent's dice throws and send them to me, I can crunch the numbers for you, or at least tell you how many more data points I need to do a proper test!

[tkdco2]

I'll try to do that next time I play.

[DungeonDevil]

After some soul-searching I thought I'd try my hand at Backgammon again, and I started researching books to read to program my brain. Bought Paul Magriel's magnum opus, and I cannot recommend it highly enough.

[Deleted]

Nov 27, 2014 10:12:02 GMT -6 Finarvyn said:

I picked chess. I've played backgammon a few times and enjoyed it, but I can't recall how to play offhand. Never played cribbage.

Checkers should have been on the poll as well.

I've played backgammon some, my sister is a killer player at it, cribbage a few times and been walked through a chess game once. Checkers I played a little as a kid, but not enough to get good at it; my maternal grandmother back in the hills in WV beat several state champions in her day. The game she played that I learned and progressed to a higher level that the others was Chinese checkers played with marbles, fun game. I have her board made from a single piece of wood by my granddad over 70 years ago.