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Post by Finarvyn on Nov 16, 2014 9:55:19 GMT -6
There are some 5E spells (such as Burning Hands) which require a DEX saving throw instead of rolling a melee or ranged attack. I don't like this. As a player I feel like when it's my turn I get to act but don't get to roll the dice. As a DM I feel like I have to roll dice when it's the player's turn.
My thought is to put the dice back into the player's hands and "invert" the scale. I'm hoping that someone can tell me if my logic is faulty.
Suppose a wizard has a "DC Save" of 13, so a monster would have to roll a 13 or higher on a d20 to succeed, not including any DEX modifiers that he might have. That gives him 8 chances in 20 for success. (That is: 13, 14, 15 ... 20) So if I want to invert the scale, 8 chances in 20 for monster success equals 12 chances in 20 for player success (i.e. the monster does not save) or the wizard would succeed on a 9 or higher. (That is: 9, 10, 11 ... 20)
So my chart would seem to look something like this: DC Roll 1 21 2 20 3 19 4 18 5 17 6 16 7 15 8 14 9 13 10 12 11 11 12 10 13 9 14 8 15 7 16 6 17 5 18 4 19 3 20 2
Okay, so if my logic is sound, I can now create an equation so that the DC number and the "wizard success" number would appear to add up to 22. So using this concept I could have players do all of the rolling and in a setting where rolling high is good.
Feedback?
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Post by talysman on Nov 16, 2014 13:09:21 GMT -6
Can't you just have the player roll under, instead of over?
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Post by Fearghus on Dec 11, 2014 7:46:34 GMT -6
I think it is a fine idea and the concept is how I handle my PF games.
PF has three saving throws: fortitude, reflex and will. Everyone gets a bonus to these saves based on race/class level/feats/etc. The monster block will read F +2 R +3 W +6. I tend to make those like the monsters AC and convert to 12, 13, 16 and make the player roll to hit with the spell 1d20 + spell level + attribute modifier. It makes my life easier and puts the dice in the players hands.
I'd like to try more of 5th ed, but my 1 player doesn't like the low power of the system.
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Post by Finarvyn on Dec 11, 2014 13:56:49 GMT -6
I've gotten my players doing the rolling and it's working well. I just decided to have them roll low instead of using the system of my original post. I like rolling high better, but it seemed like too much bother that way.
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fitz
Level 2 Seer
Posts: 48
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Post by fitz on Jan 2, 2015 1:12:19 GMT -6
I don't really see the issue; it's no different from having creatures (or players) saving vs. Spell in older editions, except that the save is DEX-based instead of being an arbitrary catch-all.
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Post by Finarvyn on Jan 2, 2015 5:46:52 GMT -6
No, it's not really an "issue" except that the rules (1) have the DM roll instead of the player, and (2) usually expect high rolls to be in the player's favor, but for saves low rolls are in their favor. I was hoping to eliminate both with a simple table. As a player, it's fun to roll attack dice, and DM-roll spells are kind of dull. Some of the classes (e.g. the monk) get multiple actions and multiple opportunites to roll some dice. The wizard typically gets one attack to roll, and in the case of the DEX-save spell not even that. My wizard player would pick up her dice and say "is it my turn?" and then realize her spell was for me to roll so she'd put her dice back down and look disappointed. I wanted to "fix" that.
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fitz
Level 2 Seer
Posts: 48
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Post by fitz on Jan 2, 2015 22:01:00 GMT -6
From Burning Hands: "Each creature within a 15 foot cone must make a Dexterity save. A creature takes 3d6 fire damage on a failed save..."
That indicates to me that the _target(s)_ make the saving throw, so if the target is a monster or monsters, then yes, the DM makes the roll. If it's a character, the player does.
That's exactly the same as as the old saving throw mechanic, apart from attaching it to DEX.
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Post by Finarvyn on Jan 3, 2015 5:30:07 GMT -6
From Burning Hands: "Each creature within a 15 foot cone must make a Dexterity save. A creature takes 3d6 fire damage on a failed save..." That indicates to me that the _target(s)_ make the saving throw, so if the target is a monster or monsters, then yes, the DM makes the roll. If it's a character, the player does. That's exactly the same as as the old saving throw mechanic, apart from attaching it to DEX. You are correct. That's what the rulebook says.
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