The sleep spell (again I'm sure)

[Deleted]

Hello everyone! Recently I've been constructing my own hacked version of the original three booklets for an upcoming campaign. I should have at least 12 players, I'm very excited! While reading through the spell list I ran into the one spell that has always left me a little confused, Sleep. This might the result of having started in later editions of the game where the spell itself was a little more defined. Being a fan of Moldvay's edition, I took some inspiration from his writings while reworking the spell for my campaign. Let me know what you guys think.

Note: The 4+1 HD rule still applies.

The spell may be targeted towards one individual or a specified point within the room or area. 2d8 are rolled and beings closest to the targeted point are affected first, the spell then fans out from that point affecting the next closest target until the number of HD rolled are used up.

Let me know what you think of this method. I'm up for any suggestions! Also, how do you handle Sleep at your table?

[Red Baron]

Hi clay, what exactly are you confused about?

The spell affects up to:
2d8 targets of HD: HD<=1+1 (1st level characters)
2d6 targets of HD: 1+1<HD<=2+1 (2nd level characters)
1d6 targets of HD: 2+1<HD<=3+1 (3rd level characters)
a single target of HD: HD<4+1 (4th level character)

The spell has a range of 24 feet. Any target within 24" of the magic user can be affected. If there are more available targets than the magic user rolled to affect (eg. 2d8=10, but there are 20 orcs) than the targets are randomly selected.

The only confusion I can see would be when dealing with mixed groups of targets, but usually this is easy enough to resolve when it comes up at the table. M&T also helps make this a non-issue, since all humanoids both lawful and chaotic (excepting gnolls and dryads), fall into the 2d8 category, and higher level monsters will either be unaffected or only subject to a single target being affected.

[Deleted]

Thank you for the detailed response, I'm thinking I'd like to use the spell as it is within the book. What really confuses me is the use of sleep in an encounter that includes creatures with different hit dice. It would be great to have an example of how the spell resolves against a group of creatures with varying hit die if you're up to it!

[waysoftheearth]

The story of sleep may be of tangential interest

[scottenkainen]

>but usually this is easy enough to resolve when it comes up at the table.

I've never known that to be the case. How do you handle Sleep when multiple HD are involved? Is there an elegant solution I'm missing?

~Scott "-enkainen" Casper

[makofan]

This is how I do it - 6 kobolds, 3 hobgoblins, and a bugbear

Start with the lowest HD monsters
Roll 2-16 for the kobolds (I get an 11). Six kobolds are slept, we get a carryover of 5
Roll 2-12 for the hobgoblins (I get a 7). Since I only carried over 5, I use 5 as my max and two hobgoblins stay awake.
We don't have any carryover to check the bugbear so he escape unscathed

Now, I don't see any support in the rules for the way I do it, but I think it keeps the spirit

[kenmeister]

Oct 13, 2014 14:35:02 GMT -6 Red Baron said:

Hi clay, what exactly are you confused about?

The spell affects up to:
2d8 targets of HD: HD<=1+1 (1st level characters)
2d6 targets of HD: 1+1<HD<=2+1 (2nd level characters)
1d6 targets of HD: 2+1<HD<=3+1 (3rd level characters)

For mixed I roll based on the lowest hit dice of targets available, the next higher hit die targets count double, and the next higher after that count triple.

I.e. 4 2nd level characters and 2 3rd level characters are hit by sleep. I roll 2d6 and get a 9. The 4 2nd level characters go down and I have 5 left. The 2 3rd level characters count double for 4, so there's enough spell power to get them too. Now 1 1st level character joins them. I roll 2d8 and get a 10. The 1st level character goes down, and I have 9 left. The 4 2nd level characters each count double and go down. I have 1 left, and I need at least 3 to get one of the 3rd level characters, so both of them stay up.

[Red Baron]

"A Sleep spell affects from 2-16 1st level types, ... from 1-6 3rd level types, and but 1 4th level type." Emphasis added to the and.

This presumably means that if a magic-user casts sleep on a mixed group, you first roll to see how many <=1+1 HD creatures are affected, then randomly determine the targets, then you repeat for 1+1 < HD <= 2+1 HD, etc. until each level type has been resolved.

eg. A magic user sleeps a group of 20 orcs, 6 swordsmen, and 2 ogres. First the player rolls 2d8 to determine the number of orcs affected and gets a 12, so the referee randomly determines which orcs are affected. Then the player rolls for 1d6 to determine the number of 3rd level types affected and gets a 6. All the swordsmen are put to sleep! Then the referee randomly determines which ogre is affected. So, the targets can be methodically resolved.

The two biggest oversights in the phrasing in my opinion, are:

A. The omission of whether the spell affects friendly targets. It seems to be generally assumed that when randomly determining targets, the spell does not affect friendlies.

B. Whether it affects targets outside of the magic-users line of vision/ or that he is not aware of, yet are within the spell's range. Again, it seems this could be a pain in the ass for the dm to resolve, and end up screwing a magic-user who accidentally slept a nest of giant rats down the hall instead of the orcs right in front of him.

[kenmeister]

The "and" has never been palatable to me because it means that in a mixed group of 17 orcs and 1 ogre, sleep could theoretically leave just the 1 orc. I like the idea that the more mooks you have with you, the less chance you have of being affected by sleep.

[Deleted]

1) We always played it that Sleep affects your friends. Gary made Magic Users be in the front rank to throw spells!

2) In a mixed group I roll to see which gets hit first. So in Redbaron's example again, I'd roll to see if it hits the orcs, the swordsmen, or the ogres. If it hit the ogres, I'd roll to see which one, and nobody else would get hit.

That is, it sleeps 1 4+1 creature OR 1-6 3rd level, etc. AND in the above sentence merely completes the list. It is NOT cumulative and Gary, Rob, and Dave never played it that way. The spell is powerful enough as is.

[Red Baron]

Oct 14, 2014 15:50:09 GMT -6 @gronanofsimmerya said:

1) We always played it that Sleep affects your friends. Gary made Magic Users be in the front rank to throw spells!

2) In a mixed group I roll to see which gets hit first. So in Redbaron's example again, I'd roll to see if it hits the orcs, the swordsmen, or the ogres. If it hit the ogres, I'd roll to see which one, and nobody else would get hit.

That is, it sleeps 1 4+1 creature OR 1-6 3rd level, etc. AND in the above sentence merely completes the list. It is NOT cumulative and Gary, Rob, and Dave never played it that way. The spell is powerful enough as is.

Thanks for clearing that up, Mr Mornard.

[Deleted]

Thank you for all of the great responses. The story of sleep was a very interesting read. I think I will be using Gronan's method, I feel it is as close as I could get to by the book. Would you happen to know if this was Gary's method as well?

[Deleted]

Not for sure. But I know that SLEEP was supposed to be useful but not overwhelming. Rob Kuntz is still around, he probably knows.

[scottyg]

Just some food for thought: sleep is random in the area of effect, lowest HD to highest, it will affect allies, but you have the option of choosing a single, specific target (in this case it will only affect one creature).

[Finarvyn]

The 5E version of Sleep is kind of neat. They let you roll a certain number of dice and that represents the total number of hit points worth of creatures you put to sleep, starting with the weakest (low hp critters) and working upward. I don't think there is a saving throw for it, but I could check.

I've found it to be really simple to use and it seems to be balanced out pretty well.

[rastusburne]

You're right Marv, no saving throw for 5e.