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Post by Finarvyn on Aug 8, 2014 16:42:32 GMT -6
I'm a little biased since I've been running a campaign with a preview version of the PH for several months now, but I'm curious what folks think about it.
A few semi-random thoughts:
(1) The book is sturdy. I don't think it will fall apart as quickly as some of the recent rulebooks we've seen from WotC.
(2) I've been using a no-art version of the PH. While the content of the PH is very similar to what I've seen already, the presentation with artwork in it is very nice. Some of the art is a little generic, but overall I think it's good stuff.
(3) My daughter thumbed through the PH and was impressed by the number of female characters shown therein. And not in chainmail bikini garb, either. On several occasions she said something to the effect of "oh, I could play that."
(4) I'm torn between the race/class simplicity of the Basic PDF and the added layers in the PH. Part of me likes the notion of playing "a cleric" and part of me says that it's neat to be able to pick among a half dozen or more variations. Life, Tempest, War, whatever. Same with the other classes, and same with the races. We have three wizards in my home campaign this summer (out of six players) and all three seem different because of the options they can pick from.
So... what do you think?
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Post by tetramorph on Aug 8, 2014 17:33:25 GMT -6
I stopped by Dragon's Lair today and thumbed through their advanced copies.
The thing is beautiful -- marketed well. Worthy of a 40th anniversary even.
But I am waiting to download my free PDF of the full Basic when that update comes out!
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machpants
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Supersonic Underwear!
Posts: 259
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Post by machpants on Aug 8, 2014 20:45:14 GMT -6
I'll let you know in a month when they turn up in New Zealand!
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Post by Finarvyn on Aug 9, 2014 6:22:20 GMT -6
I'll let you know in a month when they turn up in New Zealand! Ouch. This is why WotC needs to sell PDFs of the thing.
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Post by kesher on Aug 9, 2014 10:47:04 GMT -6
Just picked mine up yesterday morning at my FLGS! I agree, it's a solid book, built for extended use. It lays open flat, which is awesome. The layout, text-size, etc., is the best WotC has done, IMO. The art is, overall, a marked departure from the past. I don't doubt that half the adventurers pictured are female, and pretty close to that percentage are non-Caucasian in skin-tone/features. And halflings have tiny feet. I think there may be more pictures of bards than in any other product ever, period Most of the illustrations are decent, with a few striking pictures. I find myself thinking about what kind of character I'd like to play, which is a good sign. Currently I'm leaning towards a forest gnome sorcerer, from a dragon bloodline, with a noble background... I find the pieces very easy to fit together, not unlike customizing an action figure. The appendices on options for approaching deities, the planes, and inspirational reading are awesome. They've reprinted the entire Appendix N, plus additions, with Gary's original forward. I also have to say, of this edition in general, that I love the fact that the ENTIRE combat section is only 10 pages, with the necessary core rules taking up only six. I also think the whole "conditions" approach has finally shaken itself out into something simple and intuitive.
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Post by jeffb on Aug 10, 2014 7:26:02 GMT -6
Even in newer edition's I still run gnerally a basic 4 game. But, I do like having a few extra class and race options, mostly old standards like rangers, barbarians, gnomes, as well as options like different domains for clerics and full spell lists.
So I will likely pick it up through Amazon. But if the Basic game was available in print, the PHB would be a much tougher sell for me.
The first adventure and the Monster Manual are must buys for me, on the other hand.
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Post by kesher on Aug 11, 2014 8:42:55 GMT -6
Since the days of 3e's debut, I've been a sucker for the Sorcerer. I like the Warlock, too.
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Post by tkdco2 on Aug 15, 2014 20:58:59 GMT -6
I took a look at a friend's copy of the PHB last week. I like some ideas, others not so much (especially clerics not being able to turn undead until level 2). I don't dislike the system, but it wasn't enough to make me go out and buy a copy. But I'll play it if someone else runs it; we started the introductory scenario last night.
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Post by Finarvyn on Aug 16, 2014 4:26:30 GMT -6
I took a look at a friend's copy of the PHB last week. I like some ideas, others not so much (especially clerics not being able to turn undead until level 2). I don't dislike the system, but it wasn't enough to make me go out and buy a copy. But I'll play it if someone else runs it; we started the introductory scenario last night. (1) It's not just that clerics can't turn undead until level 2, but that even at level 2 they can only do it once before resting. This certainy impacts the type and number of undead that you can throw at the party. (2) Just a warning: this game will sneak up on you. The word count turns a lot of people off at first, but once you play it you'll find that it's really a lot more streamlined than it looks. Suddenly you'll want to run it.
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Post by archersix on Aug 16, 2014 6:22:43 GMT -6
It's not just that clerics can't turn undead until level 2, but that even at level 2 they can only do it once before resting. This certainy impacts the type and number of undead that you can throw at the party. No it doesn't :-) I've only played this once at a recent Con I went to. It was fun, but I'm not that excited about it yet. We will see what the future holds, and if anyone in my group will want to run it. I'm thinking that limiting turning is probably better than not getting spells until 2nd level! [/quote]
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Post by tkdco2 on Aug 16, 2014 14:37:43 GMT -6
Yup, I already have a few ideas for a campaign, although I'm going to leave the DM duties to my friends. I usually DM our sessions, so it's nice to be a player once in a while.
I think I'd rather have the turn undead before spells. It gives you a better chance against skeletons and zombies.
That said, I think I can mine the skill system for OD&D and Classic. Except I'll use the roll under mechanic. Base chance at level 1 would be 10 + stat bonus; I'm partial to the B/X bonuses. Every level a player gets a point to spend on a skill of his choice. You can add more than one point to a skill, but the base chance should max out at 19. Keep in mind my games don't usually go to high levels, so it should be okay.
I was thinking of adding an extra skill: Endurance. This would be based your CON modifier and would be used for things like forced marches, fighting off the effects of lack of food/water, etc.
What do you think?
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Post by jeffb on Aug 16, 2014 20:00:43 GMT -6
I took a look at a friend's copy of the PHB last week. I like some ideas, others not so much (especially clerics not being able to turn undead until level 2). I don't dislike the system, but it wasn't enough to make me go out and buy a copy. But I'll play it if someone else runs it; we started the introductory scenario last night. (1) It's not just that clerics can't turn undead until level 2, but that even at level 2 they can only do it once before resting. This certainy impacts the type and number of undead that you can throw at the party. I find this to be a feature, not a bug, personally. Amen. We are getting in ALOT of adventure per session. Things move fast, and I found myself under-prepared last session as the PCs made far more progress than I expected/have been used to.
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EdOWar
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 315
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Post by EdOWar on Aug 16, 2014 20:46:57 GMT -6
For those who have both the starter box set and the PHB, is there any value to picking up both? Or can I just pick up the PHB, use the PDFs, and skip the starter set?
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Post by tkdco2 on Aug 17, 2014 1:05:03 GMT -6
From what I read, you'd probably want to get both in order to run a campaign. I took a look at the PDF today and it looks like a rules-light version of the PHB. No monsters on the PDF, and mainly animals on the PHB (with the exception of imps, skeletons, and zombies). I think you can run a campaign with just the starter set, but only with the basic races and classes.
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Post by Finarvyn on Aug 17, 2014 4:41:21 GMT -6
The Starter Set has an adventure in it, and the pre-gen characters (although you can find the pregens online as a PDF now) but the rules aren't as complete as the Basic PDF. Once you have the PHB you probably don't need the Starter Set any more. Unless you like the box to put stuff in. It's pretty sturdy.
Three layers: Starter Set = Very brief "how to play" rules; no chargen. Online PDF = Basic rules (core four classes, base races), DM Guide (monsters) Core Rulebooks = PHB (out), MM (out in a month), DMG (out in November)
Once you've passed any given layer, you probably don't need to go back.
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Post by jeffb on Aug 17, 2014 6:18:27 GMT -6
If you are set for adventure material, then the Starter is easily skipped over as Basic covers what you need with the new DM update for free. Or the PHB.
For me the value is the adventure in the Starter. It doesn't read all that well at first, But we are having alot of fun with it in actual play. I pre-ordered from Amazon for 12 bucks and I have spent twice as much on adventure materials (cough- the dragons demand- cough) that were of similar scope and boring as heck.
But I am a sucker for "basic" adventures, so YMMV.
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EdOWar
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 315
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Post by EdOWar on Aug 17, 2014 11:45:46 GMT -6
Thanks for the guidance. I see that the starter set is only $12 on Amazon, so maybe I'll pick it up anyways for the adventure and dice. Cheers.
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fitz
Level 2 Seer
Posts: 48
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Post by fitz on Aug 24, 2014 21:45:20 GMT -6
I bought the Starter Set for three reasons: - first, because it's a long way off before I'll be getting my hands on the PHB -- it's not due to arrive her in New Zealand until early September.
- second, because I don't find PDF very conducive to use as a reference document at the table (I don't have a decent high-rez tablet, for a start), and
- third, because it's a nicely organised and streamlined way of easing my players into the new system. Plus, it's real cheap from Amazon.
I have no doubt though, that when my PHB does finally arrive, there will be a mighty cull of pre-gen characters and a completely new bunch rolled up
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machpants
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Supersonic Underwear!
Posts: 259
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Post by machpants on Aug 24, 2014 22:36:43 GMT -6
And it is in a neat Box that can store a fair bit of stuff
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joseph
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 142
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Post by joseph on Aug 25, 2014 9:18:44 GMT -6
Got my PHB on Saturday (yay birthday!). Must say that it is a nice book. I like most of the art, some not so much. The classes look good, I'm particularly interested in the warlock, which is new to me. I would have liked to have seen more backgrounds and there are some aspects I will not use in my home game (dragonborn, for one...) but overall I'm quite happy with it.
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Post by Finarvyn on Aug 25, 2014 14:41:07 GMT -6
The Warlock reminds me a lot of a wizard from the DCC rpg. Not a bad thing, you understand, but a similarity.
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EdOWar
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 315
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Post by EdOWar on Aug 27, 2014 15:34:27 GMT -6
The PHB is pretty much just like the basic PDF, just with a few more races and classes, and the addition of feats. And I kind of like what they've done with feats. They're much more robust than feats in 3E/4E/PF, more like plugging in optional class abilities. Of course, if you're hardcore old school, you don't play with feats.
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Post by xerxez on Aug 28, 2014 17:21:27 GMT -6
I haven't gotten to see the book yet, Fin, but I did get to play in the starter set. I posted some thoughts about it at my blog. I actually enjoyed it!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2015 1:21:00 GMT -6
*BUMP.*
So, one year later, I wonder, how does your position on 5e stand?
Seems the game is solid, which couldn't be said about 4e. But at the same time, 5e seems far from having become a pacesetter for our hobby - and it doesn't seem as if that would change all too soon.
What be your verdict, after the 1st year of the 5th era, gentlemen?
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Post by Finarvyn on Jun 28, 2015 5:47:01 GMT -6
Just the other day my home group wanted an "on the fly" RPG adventure and I found that (since I had some of their old 5E characters on my computer to print out) running 5E without any real prep was just as easy as running most of the OSR clones or OD&D.
(1) Character generation is still a lot slower, but with pregens or already built characters handy this obsticle is quickly overcome.
(2) Combat is still a lot slower so we didn't run through as many rooms of a dungeon, but my players really love the choices allowed in 5E. Particulary the wizard, who always seemed frustrated by the low number of spells in OD&D and who likes the unending stream of cantrips.
Overall, still very positive about 5E.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jun 28, 2015 6:19:27 GMT -6
For me: 5e is only D&D I haven't purchased.
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Post by Vile Traveller on Jun 28, 2015 17:01:00 GMT -6
I am reducing the PDF 5E Basic down further. I've decided to cut out backgrounds because, although they do bring something good to the table, they take too long to allow characters to be rolled on the fly and they may never fully come into play. Both of these are considerations as there is a reasonably (and I do mean reasonably) high chance of character death in my games. Also I find I don't need the additional classes.
Feats, of course, dropped by the wayside from day 1. Also, unnecessary text (for me) is being excised. And I now know which options I want, so those will be hard-wired, too. The interesting thing is that I'm just cutting, not adding. I like all the rules, using my preferred options,
I want the whole combined rule book to come down to less than 100 pages, I'm not including monsters. Should be ready to play in a couple of months, reports to follow.
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Post by bestialwarlust on Jun 28, 2015 20:39:06 GMT -6
Still haven't bothered to play it beyond the box set adventure they put out. I've got the books on my shelf collecting dust. I'd play it if somebody ran it where I wouldn't play 3e or 4e (4e being the only version I would edition bash). If I was forced to run it I'd use the basic rules, cut out the 4e-ism I don't like. Maybe allow a class or two from the PHB (why does every edition always barbarian = berserker? barbarian is a culture not a class ). My opinion it's the best attempt by WoTC at their house ruled version of d&d (and isn't every version since OD&D just house rules). But there's nothing ground breaking in it for me to want to run it that bad.
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Post by Vile Traveller on Jun 28, 2015 21:18:12 GMT -6
I'm biased because for decades my go-to version was B/X, but I've never seen the point of all those sub-classes, old or new. Everything they do can be accomplished through roleplaying and characterisation. I don't like the new classes for various reasons - sorcerers are a less flavourful version of wizards, barbarians are a culture as bestialwurst says, illusionists can be just wizards who specialise, paladins can be fighters that take a vow, or plain clerics ... I won't go on.
But I like that the rules (the rules I'm left with after my stripping-down exercise mentioned earlier) are so simple that I can keep all of them in the back of my head. That's gold dust for the improvisory referee, leaves my brain free to concentrate on bringing the game world to life.
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Post by Malcadon on Jun 29, 2015 14:54:42 GMT -6
I like the rules. It is simple and easy to work with and retool for my own needs. Unlike 4e, character generation does not feel like a straight jacket. The level bonus/proficiency system is gradual, simple and uniformed, making easy to apply. Unfortunately, the game still suffers form being too "high fantasy" for my liking, but that is just me. But at least is easy to retool to allow for more Dark Fantasy and Sword & Sorcery elements. Thankfully, the game spares me form much of that Eberron-styled "Dungeon Punk" seen in the previous edition.
I do like how they added rules to encourage role-playing, instead of it just being a Big 'O Book of Kowl Powerz! The game is still heavily reliant on skill rolls, but at least they don't cop-out with those soulless chain-rolls were, for example, you make five Stealth rolls to throw-off pursuers in what could otherwise be an exciting and fast-pace chase scene. It is good that they are encouraging flexible game-play and house-ruling. The book also gives an impression that it values character/story-driven adventures then power-builds/gaming -- I hope I'm right, as I have no love for hardcore v3.5/Pathfinder fans for the self-absorbed mentality they bring to the table.
I made my feeling well-known and in detail on another post. In an nutshell, I said the are was bland and uninspired, but is not loud and ugly as what came before it.
I have issue with the quote text at the beginning of each race, but this is minor. I personally find the D&D novels boring and dreadfully generic. I personally prefer quoting form a wide range of sources, beyond just the D&D stuff.
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