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Post by bestialwarlust on Jul 21, 2014 10:57:06 GMT -6
For your games do you use read magic? Do you think it adds a fun or interesting aspect to game play? I've been considering dropping it as a need for reading spells. If you've dropped it have you found any unforeseen repercussions?
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Post by Red Baron on Jul 21, 2014 12:00:10 GMT -6
It really depends on whether you want just anyone to be able to use scrolls. The spell can also be used to look for information or hidden command words on charged magic items, which saves you the hassle of using contact higher plane to ascertain such information.
I think a good compromise is that anyone can cast a spell off a scroll without needing a read magic, but you need to use a read magic to know what the spell on the scroll actually is.
If you have magic as a language, you could also fold read magic into the effects of a read languages spell.
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Post by talysman on Jul 21, 2014 13:43:47 GMT -6
There's a number of ways to interpret Read Magic, and magic in general, that will determine how it affects game play. For example, I assume all magic items that aren't potions or armor have words of command that must be spoken at least once to activate, and knowing the words means also knowing what the item does. Magic research can reveal this at great cost and after several weeks, but Read Magic is a shortcut, so it is basically the replacement for Identify, without the crappy delays. It lets you use stuff immediately instead of waiting. That definitely affects game play. But if you remove the words of power requirement, it just becomes a gatekeeper for scroll use... Kind of useless, unless there is some way for non-MUs to learn and use Read Magic.
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Post by tetramorph on Jul 21, 2014 15:47:19 GMT -6
I am considering dropping "read magic," as a spell, but still assuming it for spell-casting, in the sense that casting any new or discovered spell (like a scroll) requires an INT check. It takes intelligence to perform arcane magic. This includes the reading of the crazy book.
I am trying to house rule up a campaign setting where just about any PC can attempt just about anything. In this case, anyone can cast a spell (that is, read it from a book or scroll, only M-Us can "prepare" a spell for "deployment in the field") if they make their INT check, but if they are not a M-U or they are an M-U but do not have that level of spell available yet, then they must save against insanity. If they fail, they are insane for 1d6 weeks times the spell level they attempted. Over some limit this would wind up meaning permanent insanity.
Same with clerical spells only it would take a WIS check and then a ST against disease (blight) instead of insanity.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jul 21, 2014 16:51:40 GMT -6
It's interesting, perhaps, that there is no clerical read magic, and also that there are magic swords with the read magic ability, enabling fighters to use M-U spell scrolls.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 19:12:24 GMT -6
I don't think it's worth keeping as a spell that requires a spell slot. The last B/X campaign I ran I treated it as an at will spell for magic-users. I see read magic and detect magic as basic abilities that the magic-user learned in his apprenticeship, just like fighters learned to wield weapons and shields.
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Post by tetramorph on Jul 21, 2014 19:34:15 GMT -6
In the original legendaria engaged, a clerical "read magic" would be, well, Latin (or Greek, in the East, or, perhaps, Old Church Slavonic, etc.). Perhaps this is the common tongue that everybody knows? When are we in this medieval fantasy trope? I am going to make it a WIS check. You can read the sacred story, but without "faith" (here measured as "WIS"), you just don't "get it." Something like that.
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Post by bestialwarlust on Jul 22, 2014 5:50:11 GMT -6
I don't think it's worth keeping as a spell that requires a spell slot. The last B/X campaign I ran I treated it as an at will spell for magic-users. I see read magic and detect magic as basic abilities that the magic-user learned in his apprenticeship, just like fighters learned to wield weapons and shields. i was thinking of making it a cantrip but then I use read magic also as an identify to make it more worth a spell slot.
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Post by maldoor on Jul 22, 2014 7:24:37 GMT -6
I like read magic, but then I like the idea of magic-users painstakingly developing spellbooks from found scrolls and hoarding treasure to conduct magical research. The challenges presented and motivations implied add to the atmosphere of the game. The world where everyone's spells/scrolls are unique and require read magic is more likely to be a world where every magic-user has a different palette of spells they have scraped together.
It also creates possibly difficult choices: do you use one of your precious spell slots for read magic?
Do you use that scroll you found in the current adventure, or save it so you can add it to your spellbook later? For example, the party finds a scroll of levitation near an obstacle - say an unclimbable marble shaft that leads upwards to some dimly lit chamber. Does the party read the scroll to ascend now? Or do they take it home so the magic-user can scribe the spell, then risk returning to explore later using a memorized, reusable spell?
Obviously some people will not find this sort of play exciting. But for others having the sorts of magical challenges and opportunities that make read magic useful adds immeasurably to the "feel" of the game. If everyone can automatically read magic, the mysterious magical writing on the lead door on the third level doesn't feel magical or mysterious: it is just a sign on the door.
I do like the idea of using read magic as an identify spell. While I also like the idea of having to identify magical items, actually playing through the process is not rewarding. ("So, with the second potion, we again let a drop fall on the ant. What happens? Then I take a sniff. What does it smell like? Then...")
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jdjarvis
Level 4 Theurgist
Hmmm,,,, had two user names, I'll be using this one from now on.
Posts: 123
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Post by jdjarvis on Jul 22, 2014 8:14:56 GMT -6
If you aren't reworking the magic system. The read magic spell is a keeper. I let MU's read spells they know themselves without need of read magic but otherwise it's by the book. A 1st level spell that can turn into a higher level spell is actually pretty cool and enabling.
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Post by Red Baron on Jul 22, 2014 10:16:52 GMT -6
In the original legendaria engaged, a clerical "read magic" would be, well, Latin (or Greek, in the East, or, perhaps, Old Church Slavonic, etc.). Perhaps this is the common tongue that everybody knows? When are we in this medieval fantasy trope? I am going to make it a WIS check. You can read the sacred story, but without "faith" (here measured as "WIS"), you just don't "get it." Something like that. It would be interesting to make it a cleric spell that enables them to use magic-user scrolls.
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Post by tetramorph on Jul 22, 2014 11:27:29 GMT -6
In the campaign I am imagining, a cleric could attempt arcane magic -- but would loose all capacity to turn or use their own spells until confessed, absolved and completed proper penance. The patriarch and Merlin will certainly work side by side with King Arthur, but the patriarch knows well that he and his clergy aren't allowed to dabble in that Merlin kind of stuff. Something like that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 16:06:07 GMT -6
What I did for identifying magic items was give Magic-Users a chance of identifying the item on a 1 or 2 on 1d6 and all other classes figure it out (assuming it's something their class can use) only on a 1. If you failed, you could try again the next day. Basically that way they didn't have to play out the motions of testing it and it was a quick d6 roll.
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Post by Lord Cias on Jul 22, 2014 18:22:46 GMT -6
I like read magic as a spell. I require most permanent magic items to be inscribed with magical runes as part of the enchanting process. Most items, especially intelligent swords, will also bear a proper name written in magical runes. So while I don't treat read magic as an actual identify equivalent, being able to read the inscriptions or names of magic items will give clues as to the nature of the item.
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Koren n'Rhys
Level 6 Magician
Got your mirrorshades?
Posts: 355
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Post by Koren n'Rhys on Jul 23, 2014 7:00:49 GMT -6
I like read magic, but then I like the idea of magic-users painstakingly developing spellbooks from found scrolls and hoarding treasure to conduct magical research. The challenges presented and motivations implied add to the atmosphere of the game. The world where everyone's spells/scrolls are unique and require read magic is more likely to be a world where every magic-user has a different palette of spells they have scraped together. It also creates possibly difficult choices: do you use one of your precious spell slots for read magic? Do you use that scroll you found in the current adventure, or save it so you can add it to your spellbook later? For example, the party finds a scroll of levitation near an obstacle - say an unclimbable marble shaft that leads upwards to some dimly lit chamber. Does the party read the scroll to ascend now? Or do they take it home so the magic-user can scribe the spell, then risk returning to explore later using a memorized, reusable spell? Obviously some people will not find this sort of play exciting. But for others having the sorts of magical challenges and opportunities that make read magic useful adds immeasurably to the "feel" of the game. If everyone can automatically read magic, the mysterious magical writing on the lead door on the third level doesn't feel magical or mysterious: it is just a sign on the door. I do like the idea of using read magic as an identify spell. While I also like the idea of having to identify magical items, actually playing through the process is not rewarding. ("So, with the second potion, we again let a drop fall on the ant. What happens? Then I take a sniff. What does it smell like? Then...") This is essentially how I view things. read magic is a freebie for my magic-users - not precisely at-will, they do need to spend time studying a scroll or what-have-you to decipher it's contents. To a non-MU character it will be unintelligible. That doesn't eliminate Maldoor's hard choice though. Once you know it's a scroll of levitation, do you use it right away, or take it home to scribe into your spellbook? In my campaign, MUs need to research to discover those new spells. They can be from found scrolls or spellbooks (giving them incentive to adventure) or through experimentation on a magic item. Study a flame tongue sword, for example, and figure out burning hands, boots of speed to learn haste. That sort of thing.
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Post by Porphyre on Jul 24, 2014 14:12:30 GMT -6
It also creates possibly difficult choices: do you use one of your precious spell slots for read magic? Do you use that scroll you found in the current adventure, or save it so you can add it to your spellbook later? For example, the party finds a scroll of levitation near an obstacle - say an unclimbable marble shaft that leads upwards to some dimly lit chamber. Does the party read the scroll to ascend now? Or do they take it home so the magic-user can scribe the spell, then risk returning to explore later using a memorized, reusable spell? I prefer to be more liberal on the number of available scrolls (MU can scribe scroll as per the Holmes rules , and registered mages can acquire them rather cheaply at the local Wizards Guild headquarters) but as a counterpart I won't allow spells fron scrolls to be transcrpted in the Spellbook. -First, I want MU characters to be encouraged to actually "use" magic items -Second: it reduces book keeping : I hate it when a first level PC keeps an object on his character sheet for ages just waiting so he reaches sufficient level to "learn" the spel -Third: I envision a scroll like some kind of "instant spell, just add water". You can easily micowave a frozen dish and eat it, but that doesn't enable you to know the actual recîpe.
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