SEVEN VOYAGES of ZYLARTHEN Announcements and Discussion

[oakesspalding]

A 20 Page "Player Reference Sheets" download is now available here. These are in the style of the original 1974 "Reference Sheets". Pertinent rules and tables from all four ZYLARTHEN volumes have been combined. In addition, a "Summary of the 'Pros' and 'Cons' of the Various Classes" and eighteen sample "Predetermined Starting Equipment" lists have been added. I hope the sum proves useful and valuable. Enjoy!

[Deleted]

Sounds extremely useful and adaptable.

[The Semi-Retired Gamer]

Sounds useful to me.

[oakesspalding]

Thanks guys. We try.

I'm interested in what people think of the sample "Predetermined Starting Equipment" sets. What characters may carry roughly maps out to the Moldvay/Cook-Labyrinth Lord tallies. But I have a feeling that some may think it a bit "harsh", especially compared with the 3 LBB allowances, augmented by the Greyhawk strength bonuses. Keep in mind that ZYLARTHEN gives NO extra carrying allowances based on strength (I think that mechanic is too fussy).

Interestingly, the original OD&D "Reference Sheets" included a lot of stuff that the PLAYERS either didn't need to know or shouldn't know, such as monster tables with treasure types, wandering monster tables and so on. My idea was to provide a handy resource for the players, without giving away any secrets, so to speak.

[oakesspalding]

As some of you may have seen, I've put up two new blog posts on the Monsters of Zylathen here and here. Early OD&D features more monsters than one might think...

[jdjarvis]

I really like the monsters you included in SVoZ. I found both posts on why/how interesting.
The high number of men-types is something I like as it encourages a style of play that's a little different from "let's kill the monsters and take their stuff".

[oakesspalding]

I agree. However, I suspect that one reason why it fell out is because it would appear to be more difficult from the GM's point of view. Playing "monsters" that think requires you to, well, think. (I'm not being snarky here--the GM has enough thinking to do without being required to do even more of it.) And if you're running any kind of mixed party featuring multiple classes and multiple spell-users, etc., that's a lot for one person to keep track of. Does that make sense? Do you agree based on your GM'ing experience? Are there any supplements that give advice on this issue?

[The Semi-Retired Gamer]

I downloaded the pdfs earlier. All I have to say so far is "Hell YES!" as I'm checking it out. Don't be surprised if I order some print copies...

[jdjarvis]

Jul 16, 2014 15:43:25 GMT -6 oakesspalding said:

I agree. However, I suspect that one reason why it fell out is because it would appear to be more difficult from the GM's point of view. Playing "monsters" that think requires you to, well, think. (I'm not being snarky here--the GM has enough thinking to do without being required to do even more of it.) And if you're running any kind of mixed party featuring multiple classes and multiple spell-users, etc., that's a lot for one person to keep track of. Does that make sense? Do you agree based on your GM'ing experience? Are there any supplements that give advice on this issue?

I find many monsters in D&D of the AD&D and later eras to be a ridiculously overloaded bags of tricks myself and what makes them unique and distinct is often lost in too many things to play properly; I don't really have much issue with bad guy spell-casters mixed in among the fighters and rabble. The basic advice I'd give any DM in regards to monster intelligence in encounters is: the monsters want to win too (or at least survive). There's a lot of room for monster behavior and psychology and I don't recall a good source that covers much of it at all.

[cadriel]

Would it be possible for you to make Zylarthen available as a single PDF? I would like to reference it but I read PDFs on my iPad and I really wouldn't want to need to flip through all four booklets as separate PDFs, if there were a single-PDF alternative.

[oakesspalding]

That's interesting. I hadn't thought there might be a desire for that. It's easy enough. As you might have seen, the PDF's are low tech-without locks or indexes. So you could just jam them together yourself with Preview. But perhaps I could offer it as an option. Let me ponder.

By the way, do you think it's a significant thing that there are no PDF indexes, or whatever you call them? No one has said anything either way.

[oakesspalding]

Oh great. I've just seen that Save or Die is going to discuss the "pros and cons" of Zylarthen. I'm very afraid.

[cadriel]

Jul 17, 2014 20:27:12 GMT -6 oakesspalding said:

That's interesting. I hadn't thought there might be a desire for that. It's easy enough. As you might have seen, the PDF's are low tech-without locks or indexes. So you could just jam them together yourself with Preview. But perhaps I could offer it as an option. Let me ponder.

By the way, do you think it's a significant thing that there are no PDF indexes, or whatever you call them? No one has said anything either way.

Good bookmarks in PDFs are really helpful, because you can't use the same kind of sense memory or quick flipping that you can with a paper book to flip to a given page. It's a feature that is easily underrated.

Anyway, thanks for considering it.

[Merias]

I recently received my print copies of SVoZ, and I really like it. It has a great, old-school character (art, formatting, typeface, wording, use of level titles) but more than that has some rules I really like. The desciption of intelligence as the _player's_ intelligence and INT the ability score as formal education or knowledge is genius. It's really hard to play a low-intelligence character properly in any form of D&D, let alone rationalize how a low-INT (6 or less) Thief, for example, would even be able to function if you correlate INT directly with the PCs IQ. I also like that 1 gold = 1 XP, but only if the gold is spent. I incorporated that last one into my own OD&D house rules. And I like that there is no Cleric, that class has always seemed out-of-place and typecast (I haven't gotten rid of it in my own games, I have a player that likes Clerics). Very nice work! I have one question and an errata.

Question - are the 'Animal Transport' and 'Dwellings' prices meant to be in gold, or silver? You mention expensive items usually being priced in gold but I don't see it specifically mentioned for the items in those tables. My guess is silver for the animals, gold for the dwellings?

Errata - on page 18 of Characters & Combat, at the very top where it says '10 Goblins: ...' that should be '12 Goblins: ...' to match the previous paragraph where Zylarthen's party defeats twelve Goblins.

Edit to add: I too, would prefer a bookmarked PDF. The index is not so important, since you can easily search the PDF.

[oakesspalding]

Thanks! Unfortunately, the goblins just ate my full reply...

[oakesspalding]

Jul 29, 2014 15:44:48 GMT -6 Merias said:

Question - are the 'Animal Transport' and 'Dwellings' prices meant to be in gold, or silver? You mention expensive items usually being priced in gold but I don't see it specifically mentioned for the items in those tables. My guess is silver for the animals, gold for the dwellings?

Quick partial reconstruction after the Goblin attack of last night:

No, it's all meant to be in silver. But I now understand the source of the ambiguity. (I'm wondering whether/how I should point that out in the text.) The price differentials were extrapolated from Orbis Mundi, Hodges and other sources. So if you assume it is gold, all the property stuff becomes too expensive. It's also meant to roughly fit in with the prices for "castle construction" given in The Underworld and Wilderness Adventures.

As in the three little brown books, I wanted to keep prices simple--just numbers, so to speak--without getting into too much explicit coinage talk (at least in the context of the price lists).

Does that make sense?

[Merias]

Yep, makes perfect sense, thanks. I think the easiest way to avoid the ambiguity is to just add a small note at the top of each table as you did with the equipment, about all prices being in silver. As I was reading, I looked for that and didn't see it, then went back to the text and saw the note about some more expensive items being priced in gold. Not that dewllings were specifically mentioned in that sentence, but land was, and I assumed it was not an all-inclusive list. Perhaps I over-thought it .

[Mike]

Top of my wish list: A single volume Lulu hard copy.

In Australia each book is $8.94, add in the postage and I'm looking at about $44.00. :-(

[Merctime]

Sept 23, 2014 5:23:44 GMT -6 Mike said:

Top of my wish list: A single volume Lulu hard copy.

In Australia each book is $8.94, add in the postage and I'm looking at about $44.00. :-(

Kind of piggy-backing on what Mike says above, I'm wondering if there are any further developments in the works for 7VoZ, oakesspalding? (...Heh, looks like I gave up my favorite abbreviation there...)

Personally, I'd be interested in both a single volume edition (truthfully, mainly in the interest of your overseas enthusiasts than my own self), but particularly in the four books as they are. I think it would be great fun to make a 'box set' for this; Replete with neat box art and old gamescience dice inside.

Before I do this, though, I did want to ask (and herein lies the actual reason for this post), have you encountered any errata, corrections, or updates that haven't yet made it into the lulu copies? Or, if not, are there any plans to do something a little different in a new edition (not that I think there is a need for you too; I'm just asking out of curiosity).

Thanks! Looking forward to getting this in hard-copy and giving it a whirl. Making the box set should be fun, too!

EDIT: I did, in fact, mean interested in buying either the main books or a complete one; And also, I meant that I wanted to try my hand at making my own box for a personal 7VoZ box set. I wasn't terribly clear on these points!

[oakesspalding]

Plans:

1. At the one year anniversary of its launch (Christmas Eve, I think) the free version ends. An 'all in one' virtual edition will replace the four PDF books, with bookmarks, revised paginations and so on.

For a price.

Outstanding diverse errata will be (or has already been) corrected, and a rewritten (and much clearer) combat order section will be presented, But otherwise, no changes.

2. To be honest, I hadn't thought there was a market for an all in one hard copy. I will consider that.

3. An introductory children's adventure (also suitable for adults)--'Tea at my Uncle's Manse'--will be released soon.

4. Sleeping Beauty's Dungeon will be released at some point. How about dungeon delving into a fairytale...with Robots and Martians?

5. A '16th century' supplement (the original template and idea for the game) will be whipped into shape and released. Be prepared. It will be Catholic. But also very very inclusive.

6. I would love to release a few monster supplements in 1d6 style, and I have been steadily but lazily writing descriptions, either of 'Classic' or 'Advanced' monsters, or their modern variations (to be made public only with the authors' permission, of course). No idea what the market, if any, is for that. It's probably a small one.

7. There is a pending possible collaboration with another designer, glomming on and taking advantage of their hard work of course...

For a boxed edition, I would want to contract with a local printer. I probably would need a Kickstarter or something for that. I have no illusions as to how easy that would be. It's a niche of a niche of a niche product. And I LIKE the fact that the art is a hundred years old. That's probably not a selling point.

My original goal--writing a game that I would want to play myself and with my children, and that perhaps a very few others would appreciate--has been met. This was an incredible triumph (for me), and it was not necessarily foreseen. I am extremely appreciative of the compliments, criticisms, commentary, publicity (of all kinds) and support that I have received on Zylarthen--such as that from that scoundrel Merctime, that thief waysoftheearth, that plunderer scottenkainen and other low life characters...

At this point, everything else is a bonus.

Oakes

[scottenkainen]

I want a plunderer character class now.

~Scott "-enkainen" Casper