Traveller retro clones? « Thread Started on Mar 11, 2009, 3:07pm »
This is a bit off-topic, but we do have some sci-fi love on this board as well. Has anyone done a good retro-clone of Traveller similar to what's been done for D&D? I'm kind of shopping around for a system to use for a special project of mine.
This is a bit off-topic, but we do have some sci-fi love on this board as well. Has anyone done a good retro-clone of Traveller similar to what's been done for D&D? I'm kind of shopping around for a system to use for a special project of mine.
Isn't Mongoose's Traveller REALLY close, and open?
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If you want a full retroclone, Mongoose Traveller is very close to Classic and most of their changes really are improvements (but can easily be rolled back if you don't like them). The only real disadvantage is the price.
If you want a full retroclone, Mongoose Traveller is very close to Classic and most of their changes really are improvements (but can easily be rolled back if you don't like them). The only real disadvantage is the price.
I thought that Mongoose had a SRD that was a free download. If I can find a link, I'll post one.....
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
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Re: Traveller retro clones? « Reply #7 on Aug 15, 2010, 4:50am »
We actually discussed this at some depth behind the scenes at Spica Publishing, but our conclusion was the same as that of other posters - MGT is so close to CT that a clone would not do much to expand the fan base, and with the original CT materials still being available in PDF from DTRPG and in print or CD-ROM format from Marc Miller himself it would be in poor taste to make a clone available.
If you want value-for-money, you can't go wrong with the CD-ROMs.
and with the original CT materials still being available in PDF from DTRPG and in print or CD-ROM format from Marc Miller himself it would be in poor taste to make a clone available.
That's more or less the attitude I have about all clones. If the original game is still available in some form, particularly if it's available from the original publisher and/or creator, there's less of a need for a clone and indeed one could reasonably argue that it's in poor taste to create one.
and with the original CT materials still being available in PDF from DTRPG and in print or CD-ROM format from Marc Miller himself it would be in poor taste to make a clone available.
That's more or less the attitude I have about all clones. If the original game is still available in some form, particularly if it's available from the original publisher and/or creator, there's less of a need for a clone and indeed one could reasonably argue that it's in poor taste to create one.
I don't think a retro-clone is needed for Traveller. We've got the original available...and MT and TNE and T4 and GT and RTT are still available, too.
What we need is more people actually playing Traveller, plus more supplements, more adventures, and more settings.
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Re: Traveller retro clones? « Reply #10 on Aug 15, 2010, 4:01pm »
That's more or less the attitude I have about all clones. If the original game is still available in some form, particularly if it's available from the original publisher and/or creator, there's less of a need for a clone and indeed one could reasonably argue that it's in poor taste to create one.
But OSRIC came about while the AD&D PDFs were still legally available. The entire point of retro-clones is to make it possible to legally sell support materials (modules, monster books, etc.) for the original game (without having to enter into an financially prohibitive agreement with the IP holder).
A man may do both. For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day! —J.R.R. Tolkien
But OSRIC came about while the AD&D PDFs were still legally available. The entire point of retro-clones is to make it possible to legally sell support materials (modules, monster books, etc.) for the original game (without having to enter into an financially prohibitive agreement with the IP holder).
(I don't want to derail this thread with OT chatter, so feel free to shunt this to a separate thread)
I think that's a good thing, obviously, but, for me anyway, support materials are a distant second in importance to the rules themselves. I don't need supplements (though I do like them), whereas I can't play without the rules.
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Re: Traveller retro clones? « Reply #12 on Aug 15, 2010, 11:47pm »
I've also never really bought the need for a clone to just be able to publish support materials.
Ok, I sort of buy it for D&D because at one time TSR was very hostile to fan sites and such.
But, unless you want to set support material in the official setting (which a clone won't help you with), it seems to me that there's very little that can be done to prevent publication of support material as long as you find some way to reference the game it's intended for (such as "1st edition of the worlds most popular RPG").
And honestly, if your supplement is good enough, I'm going to find a way to use it in my game (and it will be obvious to me if it uses compatible mechanics if it's something of a more mechanical nature). Give me weapon stats that look like they fit with Traveller, and if they check out power level wise, I'll use 'em. Give me character generation for a career that looks Traveller like, and I'll use it (heck, far as I know, no one ever got sued for the Traveller careers in the various magazines at the time).
I've also never really bought the need for a clone to just be able to publish support materials.
...unless you want to set support material in the official setting (which a clone won't help you with), it seems to me that there's very little that can be done to prevent publication of support material as long as you find some way to reference the game it's intended for (such as "1st edition of the worlds most popular RPG").
The problem is TSR spent a decade or so demonstrating a willingness to sue not only publishers, but threaten the little people with legal action too. The Mayfair Games affair proved it was quite legal to publish compatible adventures, but they were dragged through court to do so. Most old school publishers consist of one guy working from his desktop computer and without a lot of funds to fight a legal case in court. So though it is perfectly legal to publish compatible products, TSR did such a good job of creating an atmosphere of fear and uncertainty that has left many thinking, however unnecessarily, better safe than sorry. This fear was removed with the release of the OGL/SRD and the discovery that it could be used to legally reverse-engineer the original rules.
I think one aspect of this that you're overlooking Frank is that while non-OGL modules can be released, that in itself won't grow the hobby and bring in fresh blood. All it will do is give our rapidly aging little niche more adventures to play with, which though a good thing, is ultimately a dead-end street.
If people don't already own the original rules, they're hardly likely to buy the modules. And they are even less likely to fight collectors on Ebay trying to get hold of the original rules just so they can play these new modules. Free stuff on the net is great, but some people seem to think a game is more "real" if they can buy a product for it rather than just downloading a few free pdfs off the Net.
The retro-clones are now being distributed into bricks and mortar gaming stores, reaching a new and fresh audience who are seeing not only the modules, but the rules to back them up. They are winning awards in the gaming industry. They are being talked about on non-old school forums and blogs. These people are filtering into the online old school community and it's encouraging and refreshing. While some hate the term OSR, there has certainly been an explosion of sorts online over the last few years. Gone are the days we old school types were limited to a small handful of incestuous forums, having to put up with loud-mouthed dicks just to be able to discuss our hobby with the like minded and share a bit of creativity. The scene is very different now, thank goodness.
If you want to attract new people to the scene to keep the game fresh and alive - and grow bigger - the clones are doing it far better than the used-games market and a couple of combative forums were. And they're more effective than releasing compatible modules that will only be bought by those who already possess their battered old rulebooks and are on the slippery slope to middle age and beyond.
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