Topic: Which "short story" from the Hobbit... (Read 383 times)
Finarvyn Administrator Dungeon Master member is offline
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Which "short story" from the Hobbit... « Thread Started on Jul 14, 2012, 7:36am »
This is sort of a springboard off of the "Comparitive Lengths" thread. I remember reading an interview with Roger Zelazny once where he made some comment about how each chapter of a book should be written almost as if it was its own short story. Since then, I've been looking at Zelazny's work in a new way and he really does seem to do this a lot.
Then I was pondering the short story collections by deCamp (The Spell of Seven, et all -- see thread in the "Fiction" section) that had pre-Appendix N style stories. This got me thinking about the stories to "best" represent D&D and/or the stories which would "best" represent early fantasy literature.
Now to my point: suppose that Tolkien's the Hobbit was looked at as a collection of 19 short stories that happened to line up sequentially. If you pick a chapter from the Hobbit more-or-less at random, I contend that you could read it and walk away thinking you'd read a darned good story and not feel a real loss that you missed anything.
Which "short story" would best fit in a collection such as The Spell of Seven? A couple of thoughts off the top of my head:
1) An Unexpected Party Not an adventure, per se, but a wonderful story about a guy who gets visited by a wizard and some dwarves and they tell tales about days gone by. The story ends with the hero falling asleep with dreams of adventure.
5) Riddles in the Dark Tolkien establishes early on that the hero is in strange tunnels, which he follows to a most interesting encounter. The story ends with Bilbo escaping the tunnels and going on his way to more adventures.
12) Inside Information Where our hero is persuaded to enter the cave of a dragon and have a conversation with the mighty Smaug. The story ends with the dragon flying off to other lands.
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
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Falconer Level 9 Sorcerer Cleric of OD&D member is offline
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Re: Which "short story" from the Hobbit... « Reply #1 on Jul 14, 2012, 10:15am »
I guess to me it would have to be “Riddles in the Dark.” Not just for its importance to The Lord of the Rings, but because the riddle game is truly great (and riddles ARE a big part of D&D, at least as I run it), and because Tolkien recorded himself reading it. You don’t even need the whole chapter, either: Just start from “Deep down here by the dark water lived old Gollum…” and end with “Thief, thief, thief! Baggins! We hates it, we hates it, we hates it for ever!”
But there are other iconic and action-packed chapters as well. “Roast Mutton,” “Out of the Frying-Pan, into the Fire,” and “Flies and Spiders” come to mind.
A man may do both. For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day! —J.R.R. Tolkien
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Re: Which "short story" from the Hobbit... « Reply #2 on Jul 14, 2012, 2:47pm »
Fascinating thread, Fin!
My favorite chapters of The Hobbit are amongst the first seven, before Gandalf leaves the company. Contrary to very many people, "Riddles in the Dark" is perhaps my least favorite chapter in the book. If I had to pick a single favorite chapter, it would be the first chapter. As excellent as the book is, nothing can quite live up to the evocative promise of the first chapter.
All that said, I do not think that The Hobbit fits entirely comfortably in sword & sorcery literature, though it can indeed be situated within S&S. The hobbits, dwarves, and elves don't have the savor of S&S. The chapter that is most humanocentric is "Fire and Water", which tells the story of Smaug's attack on Lake Town, and his slaying by Bard the Bowman. That is the chapter I'd add to a sword & sorcery anthology.
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Re: Which "short story" from the Hobbit... « Reply #3 on Jul 14, 2012, 3:07pm »
I think riddles would be the best of those three fine choices. Eerie setting, creepy antagonist, and an every-man type of protagonist in a really tight spot.
All that said, I do not think that The Hobbit fits entirely comfortably in sword & sorcery literature, though it can indeed be situated within S&S.
Agreed. my main thought was that it was part of "Appendix N" and that the original Hobbit was written in the 1930's, right around the time that some of the best S&S material was being put out.
I agree that it's an odd duck when compared to Conan and Lankhmar and Elric and other S&S fiction.
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
I remember reading an interview with Roger Zelazny once where he made some comment about how each chapter of a book should be written almost as if it was its own short story.
Yes that would be a book of short stories which is a different prospect to a novel. I welcome the variety and don't agree with Zelazny and don't consider him a serious writer.
I remember reading an interview with Roger Zelazny once where he made some comment about how each chapter of a book should be written almost as if it was its own short story.
Yes that would be a book of short stories which is a different prospect to a novel.
I know what a book of short stories is, but I was thinking about the style that he uses in his novels. Many of those chapters could almost have been short stories as well, with a start and crisis and resolution.
I welcome the variety and don't agree with Zelazny and don't consider him a serious writer.
I'm not sure what this means, as to whether you actually don't like him or are being tongue-in-cheek. (I'm guessing the latter.)
Quote:
The Science Fiction Hall of Fame inducted Roger Zelazny in 2010.
Worldcon Guest of Honor, Discon II, Washington, DC, 1974.
Inkpot Award, Best Prose Author, Comic-Con International, 1993.
He won at least 16 awards for particular works of fiction: 6 Hugo Awards, 3 Nebula Awards, 2 Locus Awards, 1 Prix Tour-Apollo Award, 2 Seiun Awards, and 2 Balrog Awards - very often Zelazny's works competed with each other for the same award.
...And Call Me Conrad (published in book form as This Immortal) won the 1966 Hugo Award (novel), a tie with Dune by Frank Herbert.
"The Doors of His Face, the Lamps of His Mouth" won the 1966 Nebula Award (novelette).
"He Who Shapes" tied for the 1966 Nebula Award (novella) Lord of Light won the 1968 Hugo Award (novel).
Isle of the Dead won the 1972 Prix Tour-Apollo Award (novel).
This Immortal won the 1976 Seiun Award (foreign novel).
"Home Is the Hangman" won both the 1976 Hugo Award and the 1976 Nebula Award (novella).
"The Last Defender of Camelot" won the 1980 Balrog Award (short fiction).
"Unicorn Variation" won the 1982 Hugo Award (novelette) and the 1984 Seiun Award (foreign short fiction).
Unicorn Variations won the 1984 Locus Award (collection) and the 1984 Balrog Award (collection/anthology).
"24 Views of Mt. Fuji, by Hokusai" won the 1986 Hugo Award (novella).
Trumps of Doom won the 1986 Locus Award (fantasy novel).
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
Joined: Aug 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 297 Karma: 18
Re: Which "short story" from the Hobbit... « Reply #8 on Jul 15, 2012, 10:23am »
Zelazny was a popular writer in his day certainly. I was reacting to what appeared to be general advice from him 'each chapter of a book should be written almost as if it was its own short story' but perhaps in context he was referring to his own work.
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
Joined: Oct 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 1,557 Karma: 87
Re: Which "short story" from the Hobbit... « Reply #12 on Sept 25, 2012, 11:03am »
Masterpieces of Terror and the Supernatural, selected by Marvin Kaye and published in 1985 includes the 1937 version of "Riddles in the Dark" as a stand-alone short story. The editor prefaces it with the following:
"The following piece may be enjoyed even if you haven't read The Hobbit. Bilbo, a miniature Pickwickian, joins a group of adventurous dwarves. They are captured by goblins, but during a scuffle in a tunnel, Bilbo hits his head and passes out, unnoticed by goblin and dwarf alike. He wakes up lost, alone, armed only with an elfin dagger, Sting."
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