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AuthorTopic: OD&D Sci-Fi Combat (Read 675 times)
Otto Harkaman
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OD&D Sci-Fi Combat
« Thread Started on Aug 19, 2012, 9:04pm »
This is my musing on the subject since an OD&D space game interests me as well. I've been reading many of Finarvyn's threads especial the Why does a SciFi RPG "need" skills? one. I also poked through the Terminal Space supplement. In a way I could have posted under Finarvyn's skill thread but I wanted to deal directly with combat. I am not thinking this takes place in the Star Wars universe or Traveller's Third Imperium Spinward Marches either etc.

Just to get this out of the way, I think for it to be OD&D Space you have to have classes and you have to levels. I think skills should become available matched to levels and classes. Some people are naturally going to be better at somethings than others and experienced people are going to be able to put their experience to greater advantage with a skill than people who aren't.. Ok that is out of the way so lets talk about combat.

Lets look at the OD&D combat matrix
[image]
The red is my addition. I can't help but think of Dr. Holmes comment on Gary's alignment diagram. This intricate chart could just as easily be:
M-UClericFighterTo Hit Modifier
1-51-41-3
6-105-84-6+2
11-159-127-9+5
16+13-1610-12+7
17+13-15+9
16++12*

* no "to hit" less than 1

I haven't totally thought this out but I figured these modifiers could be added to the Metamorphosis Alpha combat charts.
[image]
[image]
[image]

So a 5th level fighter using a laser pistol trying to shoot someone armored in thin metal is going to need a 13 to hit. If the same fighter was using a sword to hit the same target he would need a 12. The two matrix don't match exactly but they seem close.
« Last Edit: Aug 19, 2012, 9:07pm by Otto Harkaman »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
Otto Harkaman
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Re: OD&D Sci-Fi Combat
« Reply #1 on Aug 19, 2012, 10:23pm »
I wonder if the Gama World matrix better matches the OD&D one

[image]
[image]
[image]

So again a 5th level fighter with a laser shooting someone in thin metal or platemail (class 13 weapon to hit class 4 armor) would need a 6 and same fighter with sword (class 3 to hit class 4) a 13. Energy weapons seem a lot deadly.
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Otto Harkaman
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Re: OD&D Sci-Fi Combat
« Reply #2 on Aug 20, 2012, 1:04pm »
I can't help but sit back and think of how arbitrary these combat matrix are if compared to say Avalon Hill's Tobruk or Squad Leader. When you get down to the nitty gritty it is all sorta hokey :D

Interesting how Gamma World introduces fatigue and Metamorphosis Alpha has special movement rules in combat but I guess for modern combat you need to really regulate actions in a small segment of time. I think Metagaming's Melee/Wizard does this well for sword melee. I've been looking at Metagaming's StarLeader Assault which also introduces Action Points like GDW's Snapshot.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4280/starleader-assault
There is an interesting session report, shows the combat is fairly complex
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/33677/session-report
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Re: OD&D Sci-Fi Combat
« Reply #3 on Aug 20, 2012, 6:35pm »
Nice post(s), Otto!

As I related on another thread, I ran an "OD&D in Space" influenced by Star Wars back in the 1970's and the class system works just fine. Classes (to me) are just stereotyped skill sets so that you don't need to spend a lot of time customizing.

I like the fact that you're looking at MA and OD&D together (along with GW). I always felt that MA was a great example of "OD&D in Space" even if the actual rules were slightly different.
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Otto Harkaman
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Re: OD&D Sci-Fi Combat
« Reply #4 on Aug 20, 2012, 11:28pm »

Quote:
Classes (to me) are just stereotyped skill sets

Oh I would agree. I think levels are also important. Don't you think people like to be rewarded with something other than gold? I mean its somewhat strange but I think that is what is lacking in MA and GW, experience points and levels, that made them less popular than D&D?

I also think to retain the OD&D flavor you have to stick with the original six stats as a core. I think its easy to want to change or swap them out but then you are no longer working on a OD&D variant.

I am thinking though that some sort of action point system might need to be used based on one or several of the core stats. Modern combat is so much different than medieval. A ten second melee turn in modern combat is a long time you realize when you make a slow count to ten. A lot can happen in ten seconds.
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Re: OD&D Sci-Fi Combat
« Reply #5 on Aug 21, 2012, 11:13am »

Aug 20, 2012, 11:28pm, Otto Harkaman wrote:
I also think to retain the OD&D flavor you have to stick with the original six stats as a core. I think its easy to want to change or swap them out but then you are no longer working on a OD&D variant.

I just want to say I disagree with this. I think you can rename a stat (Wisdom —> Luck, for example), or add a seventh stat (Tech, for example), and still remain comfortably within the realm of OD&D variants. As long as they are generated by 3d6.
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Re: OD&D Sci-Fi Combat
« Reply #6 on Aug 21, 2012, 12:01pm »

Quote:
I just want to say I disagree with this. I think you can rename a stat. As long as they are generated by 3d6


I didn't mean to sound so draconian about it. I figured people like you might take offensive to changing the basic stats. :)

Interesting you mentioned wisdom because instead of luck I was thinking of education as in Traveller. Outside the context of D&D it is sort of a strange catch all stat isn't it? The others make more sense.

Off the cuff I would think technical prowess would be more class oriented, an engineer would be better with engine drives than a medico, etc.
« Last Edit: Aug 21, 2012, 12:05pm by Otto Harkaman »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
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Re: OD&D Sci-Fi Combat
« Reply #7 on Aug 21, 2012, 1:51pm »
There are a ton of RPGs worth looking at that can be thought of as “OD&D In Space” to a greater or lesser degree. Here are some of the more obvious ones:

Starships & Spacemen
Humanspace Empires
Stars Without Number
Terminal Space
X-plorers

It’s also worthwhile taking a look at:

Space Patrol / Star Patrol
Space Quest
Starsiege
Midnight at the Well of Souls
Encounter Critical

Plus there are a whole bunch of specifically Star Trek based games:

Finarvyn’s OD&D Star Trek
Where No Man Has Gone Before
Adventure Gaming in the Final Frontier / Starfleet Voyages
Enterprise

I bring these up not to quash your creativity, just to let you know they exist, as it might be worthwhile to give them a look so as not to reinvent the wheel. I like them all for various reasons, and, if I had the energy, I would create a mash-up that was perfect for my needs. In a pinch, I would use Starships & Spacemen for a Star Trek style game, and Encounter Critical for a Star Wars style game. One thing I really like, though, is the spell-like system from Space Quest.
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Otto Harkaman
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Re: OD&D Sci-Fi Combat
« Reply #8 on Aug 21, 2012, 2:32pm »
Funny I was going to post that maybe I am going down a road I don't really want to. You're right I don't want to develop a new game. I thought it might be easy to mash-up MA and OD&D. I think it is in maybe a cinematic role-playing way. At heart I am more of a wargamer than a roleplayer and therein lay the the seeds of my potential downfall in this.

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Re: OD&D Sci-Fi Combat
« Reply #9 on Aug 27, 2012, 10:27am »
If you are a wargamer at heart, then make a Chainmail in Space. (What would that be called, Reflec, Ablat?)
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Otto Harkaman
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Re: OD&D Sci-Fi Combat
« Reply #10 on Aug 27, 2012, 6:26pm »
I happened to notice that a "Starship Troopers" OGL rpg published by Mongoose uses the original six stats and incorporates Action points, along with classes and levels. Haven't read too deeply into it.

[image]
http://www.amazon.com/Starship-Troopers-The-Roleplaying-Game/dp/1904854850
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Re: OD&D Sci-Fi Combat
« Reply #11 on Aug 29, 2012, 9:33am »
Just to clarify, Starship Troopers doesn't use action points in the "Snapshot" sense for combat resolution, they are more like fate points for rerolls, etc.
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Otto Harkaman
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Re: OD&D Sci-Fi Combat
« Reply #12 on Aug 30, 2012, 9:42pm »
I suppose you don't even need action points just a referee willing to tell you what you can and can't do in the melee round. Also deciding what combat chart is applicable. Probably a WWII miniature game would be a more nature start than Chainmail. I've never looked at Star grunt or other futurist miniature game rules.

I was having a look at several hex based games that have power armored suits in them. Avalon Hill's Starship Troopers, SPI's Star Soldier and Steve Jackson's Battlesuit. You could make future combat pretty complicated using ideas from these games but its probably not as fun.
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Re: OD&D Sci-Fi Combat
« Reply #13 on Aug 31, 2012, 11:07am »
Some other futuristic boardgames that might be interesting to 'mine' ideas from:

The Forever War
Imperial Infantry Squad

and miniatures games:

Stargrunt II (free pdf)
Dirtside II (free pdf)
Striker (Traveller, of course)
Laserburn (early Bryan Ansell)
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Otto Harkaman
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Re: OD&D Sci-Fi Combat
« Reply #14 on Sept 9, 2012, 9:16pm »

Aug 27, 2012, 10:27am, Alex wrote:
If you are a wargamer at heart, then make a Chainmail in Space. (What would that be called, Reflec, Ablat?)


good question, hmmm

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« Last Edit: Sept 9, 2012, 9:30pm by Otto Harkaman »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
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