Original D&D Discussion - Which Version?

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May 20, 2013, 4:06am

Original D&D Discussion :: Other :: Other Editions and Simulacrum Games :: Swords & Wizardry :: Which Version?

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Topic: Which Version? (Read 1,167 times)

keith418
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Re: Which Version?
« Reply #30 on Feb 9, 2012, 10:36pm »

Feb 9, 2012, 6:38pm, Cameron DuBeers wrote:

Side note: Who is Zak S?

D&D With Porn Stars/Author of Vornheim

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jmccann
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Re: Which Version?
« Reply #31 on Feb 10, 2012, 12:20am »

Feb 9, 2012, 4:09pm, keith418 wrote:

I would ask whether or not the language in OD&D points one towards the Greyhawk or Blackmoor campaign models - if the structure of OD&D - in that sense - leads one to these kinds of structures.

It is interesting to read this today since earlier I read in a blog post pointed to from these boards that initially (before publication in '74) Gygax and his players just called their game Greyhawk.

But I have to confess I don't quite know what you mean by "GH or BM campaign models" - what are you thinking here?

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aldarron
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Re: Which Version?
« Reply #32 on Feb 10, 2012, 9:12am »

Feb 9, 2012, 4:09pm, keith418 wrote:

I would ask whether or not the language in OD&D points one towards the Greyhawk or Blackmoor campaign models - if the structure of OD&D - in that sense - leads one to these kinds of structures. You can fight that inclination and build a wholly orignal campaign using the OD&D rules that isn't influenced in that direction, but it might be harder.

The retro clones are stripped of the kind of language that might lead one into a Greyhawk or Blackmoor duplicate without really being aware of it. Therefore, they help one create an entirely original world - or help one do it without a struggle.

For what it may be worth, I would strenuously argue that this sentiment is exactly wrong, and reversed to the point of being exactly opposite the case.

Indeed, one of the chief difficulties presented by the OD&D retroclones is that they distinctly narrow and define the possibilities of the game along the lines we are most accustomed to, primarily in the model of Moldvay and the long series of TSR modules.

A significant portion of OD&D on the other hand, is devoted to series of table after table whose only purpose is to randomly generate a bottom up world. Further, the rules specifically cite the open possibilities, reccomending adventures on mars or in space, the addition of robots, alien technologies, monster characters, etc. etc.

In short there is a refreshing freedom and openess in the campaign possibilities promulgated by the 1974 rules that is channeled and narrowed by the later rulesets, including all the OD&D retro clones so far published.

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keith418
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Re: Which Version?
« Reply #33 on Feb 10, 2012, 1:40pm »

This is why I mix the OD&D back into S&W:WB. I think the dialectic between the two systems is marvelous.

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keith418
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Re: Which Version?
« Reply #34 on Feb 10, 2012, 1:41pm »

Feb 10, 2012, 12:20am, jmccann wrote:

But I have to confess I don't quite know what you mean by "GH or BM campaign models" - what are you thinking here?

GH=Greyhawk
BM= Blackmoor

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Koren n'Rhys
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Re: Which Version?
« Reply #35 on Feb 10, 2012, 2:09pm »

I'm following what GH and BM are. I think the question is what you mean by "campaign model".
Creating a custom world or region and adding unique character classes, monsters, etc? Compiling the info in a supplemental booklet?

An intersting line of discussion...

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keith418
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Re: Which Version?
« Reply #36 on Feb 10, 2012, 3:47pm »

I meant more like creating a world that would look more like these two models than something else.

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Finarvyn
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Re: Which Version?
« Reply #37 on Feb 11, 2012, 7:26am »

My favorte "Greyhawk" is the folio version, if you're looking for a model. The folio has general information about nations and cities but not much really specific, so an individual GM can put in his own personality into the campaign. The original Blackmoor (First Fantasy Campaign booklet) and the Wilderlands do this as well.

However, if I'm creating a campaign for my own use I need the extras. Not just the skeleton but the other stuff filled in, too. But when I finish it wouldn't be something I'd want to share becasue it would have too much material personalized to my own game.

Gary had a similar problem. The "Greyhawk" that you could buy in the folio isn't the Greyhawk that he actually ran. He didn't want to spoil the game for his own players who might read some secrets in a book, so he wrote something similar but not exactly the same to be sold.

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keith418
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Re: Which Version?
« Reply #38 on Feb 11, 2012, 3:11pm »

I liked the Greyhawk folio for all the exact reasons you mention. My players read my blog, so how can I share all the details of the campaign there without spoiling it for them?

One of the things, I confess, that I really liked about the folio was all the "Coats of Arms" that it has featured. Colorful, fascinating, they add great flavor. Using the random tables provided by the Judges Guild (in Village Book 2) I started making shields for all of the towns and castles in my campaign. They look great!

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jmccann
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Re: Which Version?
« Reply #39 on Feb 11, 2012, 7:40pm »

Feb 10, 2012, 1:41pm, keith418 wrote:

Feb 10, 2012, 12:20am, jmccann wrote:

But I have to confess I don't quite know what you mean by "GH or BM campaign models" - what are you thinking here?

GH=Greyhawk
BM= Blackmoor

I know what these stand for, that is not the question. GH or BM model as compared to what? Your point implies a contrast and I don't know what contrast you are trying to point out.

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