Post by tavis on Jun 6, 2009 18:22:48 GMT -6
At the last OD&D game I ran, I realized that in 4+ hours of play we only got through two combats. In my experience this was no different than 4E, for which I've spent substantially more effort in measuring the amount of time devoted to combat. Since I often cite the faster combats of OD&D as a significant advantage over the new school, I was shaken to consider that this cherished belief of mine might not be true.
Fortunately, forager23's game gave me the opportunity to collect some data without the confounding factor of me being the DM & thus having a major role in setting the pace of play.
Some details of the session for comparative purposes:
Rules: OD&D 3LBB's plus Blackmoor monk and assassin and Greyhawk spells available on scrolls
Interpretation: Alternate combat system, low-complexity approach (generally not separate phases for movement/missile/melee, roll initiative only when necessary to resolve which action happened first, no miniatures used)
Players: Seven, across a wide range of experience with OD&D and RPGs in general
Character: One 6th level PC per player, plus two followers and six henchmen
Adventure: Fane of St. Toad, run as a one-shot (although it took us two sessions to finish it; this was the second session, with 3 new PCs.)
Here's how the session broke down according to my notes during play:
2 - 3:15; making characters, recapping the last session, interrogating captives, formulating a marching order & plan for how to approach the Fane
3:15 - 3:35; enter the dungeon, conduct exploration
3:35 - 4:10; combat #1, fireballing scores of giant toads and putting the survivors to the sword (35 minutes)
4:10 - 4:20; exploration and planning
4:20 - 4:32; combat #2, melee against the toad god (12 minutes)
4:32 - 4:40; exploration
4:40 - 4:45; combat #3, encountering toads, identifying them as poison, sealing them off with a web spell to avoid melee (5 minutes)
4:45 - 4:50; exploration
4:50 - 4:52; combat #4, encountering toads, sealing them off with a web spell to avoid melee (2 minutes)
4:52 - 4:55; exploration
4:55 - 4:56; combat #5, encountering toads, sealing them off with a web spell to avoid melee (1 minute)
4:56 - 5:00; packing up treasure, leaving dungeon
5:00 - 5:25; combat #6, toad statue animates, we escape and return to slay it (25 minutes)
5:25 - 5:45; searching remnants of temple, working out consequences of adventure, discussing the session
Overall we spent 80 minutes out of 225, or 37% of the session, resolving combat sequences. We engaged in six combats, with an average duration of 13 minutes each.
I'll take similar notes the next time I play 4E, but one thing that I can already see will be different is the average duration. I've never seen 4E give players an ability that let the entire party nullify an encounter that would have been a meaningfully challenging fight. Once or twice as a DM I've hand-waved the resolution of an encounter I thought could not threaten the party, and as a player I've enjoyed a skill challenge to avoid combat with an obviously superior force, but the lack of a potentially combat-nullifying spell like web has a definite effect on how long it takes to play out each combat and the number of combat situations that can occur during a session.
Fortunately, forager23's game gave me the opportunity to collect some data without the confounding factor of me being the DM & thus having a major role in setting the pace of play.
Some details of the session for comparative purposes:
Rules: OD&D 3LBB's plus Blackmoor monk and assassin and Greyhawk spells available on scrolls
Interpretation: Alternate combat system, low-complexity approach (generally not separate phases for movement/missile/melee, roll initiative only when necessary to resolve which action happened first, no miniatures used)
Players: Seven, across a wide range of experience with OD&D and RPGs in general
Character: One 6th level PC per player, plus two followers and six henchmen
Adventure: Fane of St. Toad, run as a one-shot (although it took us two sessions to finish it; this was the second session, with 3 new PCs.)
Here's how the session broke down according to my notes during play:
2 - 3:15; making characters, recapping the last session, interrogating captives, formulating a marching order & plan for how to approach the Fane
3:15 - 3:35; enter the dungeon, conduct exploration
3:35 - 4:10; combat #1, fireballing scores of giant toads and putting the survivors to the sword (35 minutes)
4:10 - 4:20; exploration and planning
4:20 - 4:32; combat #2, melee against the toad god (12 minutes)
4:32 - 4:40; exploration
4:40 - 4:45; combat #3, encountering toads, identifying them as poison, sealing them off with a web spell to avoid melee (5 minutes)
4:45 - 4:50; exploration
4:50 - 4:52; combat #4, encountering toads, sealing them off with a web spell to avoid melee (2 minutes)
4:52 - 4:55; exploration
4:55 - 4:56; combat #5, encountering toads, sealing them off with a web spell to avoid melee (1 minute)
4:56 - 5:00; packing up treasure, leaving dungeon
5:00 - 5:25; combat #6, toad statue animates, we escape and return to slay it (25 minutes)
5:25 - 5:45; searching remnants of temple, working out consequences of adventure, discussing the session
Overall we spent 80 minutes out of 225, or 37% of the session, resolving combat sequences. We engaged in six combats, with an average duration of 13 minutes each.
I'll take similar notes the next time I play 4E, but one thing that I can already see will be different is the average duration. I've never seen 4E give players an ability that let the entire party nullify an encounter that would have been a meaningfully challenging fight. Once or twice as a DM I've hand-waved the resolution of an encounter I thought could not threaten the party, and as a player I've enjoyed a skill challenge to avoid combat with an obviously superior force, but the lack of a potentially combat-nullifying spell like web has a definite effect on how long it takes to play out each combat and the number of combat situations that can occur during a session.
