How do you handle character death? « Thread Started on May 2, 2009, 8:20am »
So, I'm starting an old school game, and my players are *very* daunted by the possibility of their characters dying. In particular, they're concerned about potential problems resulting from a new first level character rejoining a high level group and facing much greater danger as a result. We've discussed implementing some sort of "fate point" system that would allow new characters to start at a higher level, but we're stuck on some of the specifics.
I'm curious, how do other groups handle these issues? Do you allow for a new character to start at a higher level, and if so, how do you determine at what level they should start? Or, do you simply have the new character start at first and, I dunno, hide in the back for a while?
Joined: Oct 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 661 Location: Austin TX Karma: 48
Re: How do you handle character death? « Reply #1 on May 2, 2009, 9:12am »
I've handled this situation, and have seen it handled, in various ways. Perhaps these will be use to you.
First, how big a difference? If it is within three levels I wouldn't make any adjustments.
If more than three levels you can give the newbies half the average level of the rest of the group, rounded down. Thus, a character joining a group with an average of 7 levels would be granted third level.
Or, you can allow the new players to start a character at the same level as the lowest member of the group.
Allow the players to assume the role of any DM-run companion NPCs or (with the agreement of the PC in question) any henchmen NPCs.
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Re: How do you handle character death? « Reply #2 on May 2, 2009, 11:42am »
If he is an experienced player, I let him start a new character at the level that everyone else is at. It makes no sense to me to require a player with 30 years experience to start at 1st level because he hasn't "earned" a higher level.
After all, did I as the referee "earn" all the levels of the 18th-level evil sorcerer NPC? Of course not. I earned none of them--not a single x.p. I simply made the sorcerer that way from scratch. What's good for the referee is good for the players.
For brand new players, I'd start them out as 1st level PCs in a group of other 1st level PCs. I think that makes for the most fun for the new guys.
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Re: How do you handle character death? « Reply #3 on May 2, 2009, 1:08pm »
I haven't really ever had a problem with 1st level characters coming into more experienced groups. But, more often than not, people had more than one character in a campaign and if someone or multiple someones died, others would play lower level characters until a group of higher level characters could play. If that wasn't the flavor of the day, then the new character would come in as a squire of one of the other characters or son, etc.
A pretty frequent occurrence in our groups is to create large family trees with players claiming dibs on various characters within a family. Each player being the head of one household, controlling the families assets, etc.
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Re: How do you handle character death? « Reply #4 on May 2, 2009, 4:39pm »
The game I'm in has seen many characters die off (and not all because of player error -- those hobgoblins were just too tough!)
We've only had one get to second level. But I'd be at second level if I was still playing my first character.
So the thought struck me: Why not just give the experience to the player, instead of the character? If I show up every session, I deserve a little extra (at least I think I do). And then, even if my character gets blown away (especially in one of those save-or-die situations), I can come back into the game without too much loss.
Note that I haven't tried this, or even really thought it through much, so it's still in the idea stage. But it's a possibility.
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Re: How do you handle character death? « Reply #5 on May 2, 2009, 5:11pm »
I usually handle them one at a time, ya know, to give them that personal touch. When I can though, I like giving groups a hit point discount.
Seriously though, I had 1 actual PC die in each of the first 3 sessions of my S&W campaign - one got axed by a berserker, another by an orc and the third speared by an orc. They just rolled up a new character and I worked them back into the game. No fuss(ing), no muss.
Re: How do you handle character death? « Reply #6 on May 2, 2009, 10:06pm »
I am a big believer that this is one of the major purposes of finding good henchmen. When the PC dies, the player can start running the henchman. That being said, it is nice if you allow the player to roll up the henchman.
Foolish Rules Lawyer! Your disingenuous dissembling means nothing to Doom!
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Re: How do you handle character death? « Reply #7 on May 2, 2009, 10:42pm »
I've had players make their characters a formal adventuring company, with a charter that spells out the company's duties towards it's members. This usually includes as joint fund for healing, curse removal, and resurrection. If the party convinces a powerful cleric to be their patron, It's easier to get downer characters reupholstered. Of course, then that cleric patron can get all patronizing. That's the part thats fun for me.
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Re: How do you handle character death? « Reply #8 on May 3, 2009, 1:44am »
When a character dies, the player makes a new character with half the experience, so it's usually a 1-level penalty unless going between thief and magic-user or something like that.
The highest level character just snuffed it last month, and we've got a couple of new players (I started them at second level, but 0XP), so the average power level of the group just dropped like a rock.
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Re: How do you handle character death? « Reply #9 on May 3, 2009, 9:13am »
If the PC party averages 8th level or higher, and one of them dies, I don't think it is terrible to allow a 2nd or 3rd level new character. However, if the prospective 1st level character can be patient, stay in the back, and learn from his companions, he will likely gain levels more quickly than if he'd adventured with others of his own low level average; i.e. in a game where gold = EP. Another "however" is that the low level character, subject to area of effect spells and monster powers is screwed no matter how conservative he plays it. So, it is indeed a tough question.
Another consideration is this: I have DMed high level groups where one has died and a new character needs to be rolled up. Upon offering the player the chance to start at 2nd level, he declined, preferring to earn it on his own. So, I think it is a case by case, group by group consideration.
Lastly, I've also found that my players are not interested in playing one of their own lowly henchmen, even if they are fond of the NPC. It's just not the same.
Lastly, I've also found that my players are not interested in playing one of their own lowly henchmen, even if they are fond of the NPC. It's just not the same.
Heck, I've had henchmen I was jealous of (plotting to kill your henchman for his stuff; huh, right out if you are a good or lawful character). But, though I never really considered it before, the most fun "replacements" I've had were characters coming in at the starting x.p. level of, or the level before that of, the dead character. Also, a few games I've been in, we had "Wills" which left our belongings and gold to lower-level relatives -- assuming the body was recovered. I've had party-members who decided that certain items were "lost" (to their pockets) to be replaced by gold before the "Will" was "read" to the new character. I played in character and never "suspected" the switch -- actually had two instances where players come clean with my characters and apologized once they got to know them.
Also, I have a large "stable" of characters from former games and DMs have been generous in looking over them and letting one in as a replacement or where you are joining a running, higher level campaign. This means that you are familiar with the character and the other players get to "learn," and learn to trust, the character. If moving from a low-magic to high-magic campaign, a look at the type of magic already in the party and a quick wit and tongue can gain some nice goodies. The alternative, high to low, gives the DM that greatest of DM pleasures, stripping away the character's best items. Always remember it is the DM who has the say-so as to whether the character and his goodies get it.
Lastly, I've been in a few very fun games or even campaign arcs leading to the return of the dead character -- in higher-level games. Play an NPC or a ghost in the meantime.
Joined: Oct 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 661 Location: Austin TX Karma: 48
Re: How do you handle character death? « Reply #11 on May 3, 2009, 6:04pm »
In my campaign all valuables had to be returned to the dead PCs "estate" or to his or her heir. If they decided to keep anything the estate could reasonably expect book value + 20%. An exception was made for clerics, who were assumed to allow their companions to take whatever they needed and donate the rest to departed's church.
If that wasn't paid in full, bad things started to happen to the offending character. Missed saving throws, bad reaction rolls, increased wandering monster checks ... and they got worse from there.
The gods (played by myself) took a dim view of looting the corpse of a companion!
Re: How do you handle character death? « Reply #12 on May 3, 2009, 11:34pm »
Thanks for all these great responses! Some interesting thoughts, and it's good to see such a range of opinions represented.
Let me just clarify *why* this question is a concern: I don't think I've *ever* killed off a player's primary character in nearly 20 years of game mastering! My group's play style just never seemed to have room for the possibility. Now, with the increased attention the so-called "old school renaissance" is getting, I'm really interested in what we've been missing. Therefore, I wanted to make sure that my OD&D campaign included the possibility of PC death AND that death served as a significant enough disincentive that the players would have a healthy fear of it. So, I'm hoping to find just the right balance between letting the new characters start at the same level, which I fear would cause the players to blow off the dangers inherent in the dungeon, and having to start all the way back at the beginning, which could get very frustrating.
Here's another question for you- How do your players typically react to a character dying? Do they get upset? Or do they see it as just a part of the fun of the game?
Joined: Mar 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 300 Location: Los Angeles, CA Karma: 6
Re: How do you handle character death? « Reply #13 on May 4, 2009, 12:05am »
It's REALLY hard to kill off a high level character, unless it's a save vs. death sort of a thing, but I tend to avoid those for adventures for characters over about level 5 or so. My experience has been that if the players understand it was their error or overzealousness, it's part of the game. If they feel it's cheap, then they tend to get upset. I've never seen anyone be angry at a death for a character level 3 and under before.
I remember killing off my brother level 18 magic user back in the day. He was not pleased. I didn't actually change any rolls, but I did harshly interpret some of the situation. By that time he had built up such an arsenal of magics and such that it cost him some xp, gold and a bit of time, but it was mostly a bump in the road at that point.
EDIT: Oh, and one more thing. Get your players to play lots of Dwarf Fortress. They need to embrace it's motto: "Losing is fun!"
It' can be a heck of a lot of fun allowing your characters to die off, especially at level 1-3.
Now Available: Supplement V: CARCOSA for the original Dungeons & Dragons game Fungoid Gardens of the Bone Sorcerer, a low-level D&D module that makes use of Supplement V: CARCOSA Click here to order: http://carcosa-geoffrey.blogspot.com/
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