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Post by codeman123 on Mar 26, 2009 11:58:45 GMT -6
I do not know if this question has been tackled before but how many spells do magic users actually start with? Do they gain the knowledge of the entire list or just a certain number in their books as was done in later editions? Men and Magic seems to make me think that they can memorize from the entire list especially the end of the book under spell creation which states something to the effect of when a magic-user creates a new spell he can keep it to himself or reveal it to others for future use. Again i have been making assumptions based on the later editions that i have played the most. Od&d always throws a curve ball at me and would just like your opinions on this matter.
Also i suppose clerics apply to this matter.
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Post by snorri on Mar 26, 2009 12:23:22 GMT -6
No clear rule, but I would agree there is an open space for they know all possible spells from the core book, as 'usual' spells. Same thing for clerics.
There's no rule also on studying spells everydays. So, I assume that, once they studied it, they know it as long it has not been fired.
Eventually, as I did in Epées & Sorcellerie, I would allow to remember a spell as long as another as not been prepared trough a ritual. The reason is that the lbb states a spell-caster chioose his spells for the adventure, not for the day, but spells slots are by day. So that makes sense : they can't change during an adventure because they don't have space, materials and concentration for the ritual, but they don't forget them. It makes a big change with the ad&d reading, but stand od&d by the books.
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Post by codeman123 on Mar 26, 2009 14:29:05 GMT -6
Good view i think i kind of like the idea.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2009 14:46:29 GMT -6
I always wanted to run a campaign where each player started with no spells at all. In the campaign no one would teach spells to anyone, scrolls and books they find would have spells in them but the players would start with no way to read them. The only way to read these would be to locate an item which would allow them to read magic.
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Post by codeman123 on Mar 26, 2009 15:14:44 GMT -6
Yeah i thought about too i know Dave Arneson said he used to play in a like fashion but instead players who wanted to cast spells did so purely through finding scrolls etc. Dave correct me if i'm wrong lol.
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invoker
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Post by invoker on Apr 7, 2009 21:42:58 GMT -6
Isnt it directly related to the characters INT? A cleric gets access all of them. A mage starts with only a few then adds them as they go along. If a mage had access to them all what would be the point of adventuring ~ they search out arcane tomes and spells in some cases its there driving force.
Food for thought?
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Post by Random on Apr 7, 2009 22:08:41 GMT -6
It depends on whether you're using Greyhawk or not, and your personal interpretation.
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Post by codeman123 on Apr 8, 2009 2:52:14 GMT -6
Thats what my question actually was about. Because yes in later editions that is how it was handled of course but reading the 3LBB has given me the perspective that thats not how it originally was designed proubly...
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Post by Random on Apr 8, 2009 8:06:35 GMT -6
IIRC from previous discussions, with just the 3LBB you're "supposed" to have access to all the spells, but with Greyhawk's larger spell selection, possibly it was necessary to limit the magic-user's access to all of them.
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Post by kesher on Apr 17, 2009 14:22:01 GMT -6
I always wanted to run a campaign where each player started with no spells at all. In the campaign no one would teach spells to anyone, scrolls and books they find would have spells in them but the players would start with no way to read them. The only way to read these would be to locate an item which would allow them to read magic. This is a GREAT idea! You could easily build an entire campaign around it, where Magic Users drive dungeon adventuring, and the other types of characters are hired/forced/seduced by them to come along for protection. Players could even each make rival mages who would get into nasty confrontations deep beneath the earth... Have an Exalt for that.
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Post by Finarvyn on Apr 18, 2009 5:50:45 GMT -6
I've tried something like this before and really enjoyed it, but the magic-user characters hated it. It's the whole "Pandora's Box" problem; once a magic-user has had access to lots of spells, it's tough to limit them again.
Now, I know that the proposal was that anyone could learn spells, but I have some players who really want to play MU's and build their entire character concept around that. Those players (cough, cough, my wife) get really annoyed by this way of doing things.
As I said, fun for me and in general the players had a good time.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Apr 18, 2009 6:11:24 GMT -6
Another (vaguely related?) idea that I've often thought would be fun, but never actually put into practice, would be to have magic-users invent every single spell that they use. The "stock" spells would be for the referee's use only (for NPCs). A big part of the game focus would naturally be on the magic-users recovering/researching tomes, scrolls and various arcana that enabled them to craft new spells. This would be a big incentive for dungeon delves, of course (as Kesher already noted). The down side (perhaps) is that magic users would be even weaker at low levels with very few spells known, and the players would have to contribute significantly more creativity to the game. But if you have players who like the idea of making their own magic, then it could be fun The referee would also have to exercise a certain degree of wisdom to ensure that the invented magics didn't get out of hand. But that could be part of the fun too
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2009 6:23:17 GMT -6
Or, as an alternative idea, you could have decreasing availability of spells as levels increase. First level spells would therefore be widely available, second less so, third rare ... after that one would have to research their own spells.
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Post by Finarvyn on Apr 18, 2009 6:30:04 GMT -6
I tried something like that as well. I let the spells of Men & Magic be "general knowledge" and those added in Greyhawk would be only found in scrolls and whatnot.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2009 9:37:24 GMT -6
Interesting, Finn. I tried the exact same approach and was very pleased with how it worked out. Of course, that was years ago, before every gamer owned every printed work dealing with the various D&Ds.
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Post by Finarvyn on Apr 18, 2009 13:13:02 GMT -6
I'm lucky -- most of my gaming group has little interest in buying rulebooks and/or reading rules. (Okay, so one guy is a super rules-lawyer type, but usually I can keep him in check.) So most of my players get surprised by the most basic things!
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Post by badger2305 on Apr 24, 2009 7:59:18 GMT -6
I've tried something like this before and really enjoyed it, but the magic-user characters hated it. It's the whole "Pandora's Box" problem; once a magic-user has had access to lots of spells, it's tough to limit them again. I think it's a matter of initial set-up. They may be used to knowing a lot of spells in other campaigns, but if you warn the players ahead of time, they can decide if that's the sort of campaign they might get into.
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