I must protest bitterly that my aircraft still has not been painted red.
Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 1,596 Location: Schenectady Karma: 73
Holmes level 12 « Thread Started on Jul 28, 2010, 9:18pm »
Mentioned this in the underdark. Last april/march I began toying with a version of the holmes rules Greyharp had done some revision work on, with the idea of expanding it to level 12. I was waiting on Delve's latest revision but then decided I was happy with it as is.
Between the two of us, here is what we did:
Note From Aldarron: For purists the major changes in this revision are allowing hobbits to play thieves (naturally!), the reversion of the Alignment system to the OD&D original and the expansion/revision of the sample dungeon for the sake of fun. Elf level advancement has been re-explained to conform to one of two methods found in OD&D. Things of lesser note include following most of the suggested revisions (except spell points and changing the armor class system) Dr. Holmes proposed in Dragon #52 and including a few sentences of his text. Small portions of text from Dr Holmes Fantasy Role Playing Games book were also included in the strength description, the description of Anvil the Dwarf and the sample dungeon floorplan. Also the description of the caller and the example of play from the Holmes book replaces the earlier version. Mike Carrs’ text which was originally published in game module B1 as an accompaniment to the Holmes rulebook has been woven into the text in the EXPERIENCE POINT, HENCHMEN and DUNGEON MASTERING AS A FINE ART sections. The section PORTCULLISES, AND DOUBLE PORTCULLISES is taken verbatim from the original release of Module B3, Palace of the Silver Princess by Jean Wells. A morale system was suggested by Holmes but rather than looking to later versions of the game I choose to include Nicolas “Snori” Dessauxs system presented as a logical means of adapting Jeff Perrens morale system in Chainmail as was suggested to do in the 1974 OD&D rules. CONSTRUCTION OF STRONGHOLDS, HIRELING MORALE, FIFTH LEVEL CLERICAL SPELLS, and SIXTH LEVEL MAGIC USER SPELLS and parts of SIEGE WEAPONS were compiled by Delve, however Hit point values of structures were derived by multiplying by three the values found in Chainmail because the average catapult damage in D&D is three times that listed in Chainmail. The revisions to the thief class follow the original publication by Gary Gygax and Gary Schweitzer taken from “The Great Plains Game Players Newsletter” #9 (June 1974?; pages 8-9). Likewise a more detailed combat table by Gary Gygax, (Liaisons Dangereuses #73, August 16, 1976) replaces the original. GRAPPLING ATTACKS summarizes the method presented by Gary Gygax in The Strategic Review Vol. 1, No. 2, Summer 1975). Sections on FIRES AND FLOODS IN STRUCTURES and AERIAL and NAVAL ENCOUNTERS were drawn from the Rules Cyclopedia and D&D sources (via Greybook) rather than the somewhat complex and board-game-like rules found in OD&D, and the short section on being LOST by me, is based loosely on the Outdoor Survival and OD&D rules as implied in the text. FATIGUE follows the recommendation of Aaron Oliver in his Rules Cyclopedia Addendum with references to Chainmail. Jeff Grubs’ B 1-9 In Search of Adventure, 1987, page 5 supplied the OUTDOOR SCALE and MOVEMENT IN THE WILDERNESS rules. Lastly, some changes to POISONED WEAPONS were made to create compatibility with OD&D Men and Monsters and Supplement II Blackmoor. The little squiggle art at the end is from the unauthorized French translation.
Note from Greyharp: I added in all the extra information in Meepo's Holmes expansion, as well as various elements that were in the initial printing but then dropped in later ones and got rid of all the AD&D references. I got it to the stage of inserting images (low quality scans), again from all the various printings of Holmes. I also added in all the elements that were listed in Holmes, but not detailed - monsters, weapons, magic items, etc. I referenced the 3LBB, Greyhawk and even Chainmail for any missing information. I changed the word halfling to hobbit. The section on Catapults is half OD&D, half Chainmail. It avoids the complexity of Chainmail, but remains flexible enough for D&D and nicely fleshes out all those hints and references in the 3LBB.
Nice! I think that expanding Holmes to L12 is a fantastic idea. When you get the Meepo-Aldarron-Greyharp version done, will it be a download somewhere?
KELT-SET =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Bishop of Blackmoor Found B/X D&D in the 1980's =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
Nice! I think that expanding Holmes to L12 is a fantastic idea. When you get the Meepo-Aldarron-Greyharp version done, will it be a download somewhere?
Been done for months. PM me an email or check the underdark.
I must protest bitterly that my aircraft still has not been painted red.
Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 1,596 Location: Schenectady Karma: 73
Re: Holmes level 12 « Reply #4 on Aug 13, 2010, 8:45pm »
Okay today I've finished a revision which now has the OD&D magical sword determination rules added in. The game is much richer with them included. I took the opprtunity to also clean up the monsters a bit and add a couple and some lycanthropy notes from Supplement II. I don't plan on doing any more work on the text. It's about as done as it can be.
I just downloaded this today and I have to say it is indeed excellent!
I am having a hard time finding information on AC. The only reference I can find is the revised combat table. Which, subsequently, does not have a key for the abbreviations used. This is my first exposure to this table, and I can't make heads or tales of the abbreviations in the AC column or the results in the attack matrix that begin at fighter level 26. Admittedly, I have not yet studied the document in depth, so perhaps I missed something?
Okay, I feel a little stupid now. I just realized the "abbreviations" in the AC column are actually the words, DEFENDERS ARMOR CLASS. That's what I get for posting too soon!
Is it the same deal with the abbreviations in the attack results?
I guess I still can't find the AC table. Not that anyone reading it at this point doesn't already know what AC which armor provides. I would guess you would only need to include it for completeness.
Okay, I feel a little stupid now. I just realized the "abbreviations" in the AC column are actually the words, DEFENDERS ARMOR CLASS. That's what I get for posting too soon!
Is it the same deal with the abbreviations in the attack results?
I guess I still can't find the AC table. Not that anyone reading it at this point doesn't already know what AC which armor provides. I would guess you would only need to include it for completeness.
I think I need to take a nap..
Well I'll be buggered. Nice catch Arcadyn, I can't find it either. I think I know what happened - Greyharp has the types listed in the combat table on his version (AC5 chainmail etc), and since I replaced those tables with the one from Gygax in Liasonnes Dangerous that you were having trouble reading, the armor class types were lost alltogether. I'll have to fix that, but right now I need some sleep too..
okeydoke, AC types table is now in. I simply inserted Greyharps table from his OD&D compilation - had to rearrange a few pics to make good the formatting but it's all set now.
Re: Holmes level 12 « Reply #12 on Oct 26, 2010, 6:49pm »
By Crom! Have yourself an exalt man! The disentegrate spell is listed twice as a level 5 and level 6 spell (should be sixth and Death spell...also level 6)
And remember dog-brothers, should you be setup on by ravenous player's demanding an adventure of epic glory and conquest only to find none so worthy to throw in front of their slavering jaws....
Playing: Yton, A halfling troubadour in an Eberron (Savage Worlds) campaign; Hans a freelance duelist in a Runequest 2nd/3rd edition campaign; The Vociferous Bastard from Innsmouth, a scoundrel in Mushgnome's Chainmail Carcosa.