I must protest bitterly that my aircraft still has not been painted red.
Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 1,596 Location: Schenectady Karma: 73
Mike Carr's forgotton additions to Holmes « Thread Started on Oct 5, 2009, 8:26pm »
I never ran Carr's B1 In Search of the Unknown. A friend of my DM back in the late 80's gave me a copy, but mostly it has just sat on the self with a lot of other modules. Last week, looking for a fun read, I grabbed it. I remembered from when I read it years ago that it had been designed to go with the Holmes rule book and that it had pregens and a few pages of DM advice, but I was completely surprised to discover nearly 5 pages of what can only be described as supplemental rules. Although these rules are written directly to the beginning DM using the module, there is no doubt that they were meant to be general rules to always be used when playing Dungeons and Dragons. Since B1 was packaged with the Holmes rulebook I think its fair to consider them "official" additions to the Holmes book. TSR must have felt this stuff was necessary and not well explained in Holmes. More than half of it deals with hirelings, but such topics as rest, HP recovery, experience points, treasure splitting, mapping, wandering monsters and others are covered. I was so intrigued and fascinated that I gathered it all together in one document. Have a look in the underdark. For those of you who have the module, I'm talking about page 3, 4, 5, and 26-27. There is really a lot of specifics in there.
We thought we were crazy, but we had a great time. - Dave Arneson
greyharp Guest
Re: Mike Carrs forgotton additions to Holmes « Reply #1 on Oct 6, 2009, 1:00am »
Nice piece of detective work. It will be interesting to do the same thing with the early printings of B2 and compare them to later ones to draw out the Holmes relevant information.
Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 272 Location: Fayetteville, GA Karma: 5
Re: Mike Carrs forgotton additions to Holmes « Reply #2 on Oct 6, 2009, 4:56am »
Interesting. I guess I never looked closely enough at my Holmes B1 before. (besides noting the demi-human thieves, 'magic-user only' elves and 'fighting man only' elves in the pregens)
Joined: Jan 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 100 Location: Bellevue, WA Karma: 5
Re: Mike Carr's forgotton additions to Holmes « Reply #3 on Oct 9, 2009, 3:26am »
Interestingly, some of the text regarding hirelings from the monochrome B1 seems to be missing from the later printings with the Darlene cover. Here are the two paragraphs that seem to have been excised from later printings:
Quote:
Any hireling survivng an adventure, if well treated and amply rewarded, may decide to become a follower (or loyal henchman) of one of the player characters. This will depend upon numerous factors: the non-player character's personality, the rewards or benefits obtained by the non-player character in previous adventuring, the treatment he received from the player characters, the competence of the player characters, and--of considerable importance--the charisma of a particular player character. All these factors must be weighed by the Dungeon Master, as well as consideration of the fact that the player characters may or may not have any accomplishments or reputation that would serve to attract others to their service. If he deems it appropriate, he assigns a reasonable chance for a character to gain a particular follower, and rolls the dice. Keep in mind, however, that players may find it difficult to attract henchmen until they have increased their experience and fame.
The loyalty of any follower will likewise be subject to continual checks depending upon similar considerations as above.
These two paragraphs appear after the 4 tables for determining NPC personality characteristics. The monochrome B1 I found them in is a second printing.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -- Robert E. Howard, "Tower of the Elephant"
Joined: Mar 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 778 Location: Hyperborea Karma: 47
Re: Mike Carr's forgotton additions to Holmes « Reply #5 on Oct 21, 2009, 10:10am »
Started running B1 last night. The players are going nuts trying to map. The open concept of monsters and treasures left to the DM to develop is one that I appreciate and enjoy. It inspires me to try something similar in the future. This is a great adventure.
I have both versions and never thought to compare them. Until this thread I had no idea that they might be different. My monochrome version is mint and in a poly bag with backboard. My brown cover version is beat to all bloody hell and written inside, too; this is the one a I use for game play.
Joined: Dec 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 206 Karma: 18
Re: Mike Carr's forgotton additions to Holmes « Reply #6 on Jul 7, 2010, 12:16pm »
Could somebody maybe PM me if there is a way to get ahold of just the rules additions for this? Or should I invest in the monochrome B1 (I don't know where my old copy is).
Re: Mike Carr's forgotten additions to Holmes « Reply #8 on Jul 8, 2010, 7:28am »
I sat down last night and read the pages from the In Search of the Unknown module you suggested and wrote down a few notes of rules that I don' think were mentioned in the Basic Book and look like they will come in handy.
1. Players must determine their parties marching order, who will be in front , middle and rear.
2. More detail on the Caller - an interview "basic point of view" Holmes did not like this rule and preferred the freedom for all players to make their own decisions, within reason.
3. Rest/Sleep Period - Players break camp to rest or sleep. 8 hrs must be spent for each 24 resting or sleeping. The party elects guards to stay awake. 1 hit point is regained per 24 hours. 3 checks must be made each night for possible wandering monsters.
4. Wandering in the Dungeons - Every 3rd turn the DM should roll for possible appearance of wandering monsters.
5. Clerics pay a tithe to their church for treasure accumulated during their adventures. To clarify this rule as a DM I would implement this rule as a monthly fee of 10% to all treasure earned to be paid in to the clerics church. Faithful followers do likewise.
6. Hirelings - the module does go into further detail for hirelings and gives a few alternative methods for the DM to use such as how many henchmen should be allowed per party. NPC personalities and classes of the NPC hired. As well various conditions that could make or break an alliance with the NPC's.
The NPC rules are mentioned in the basic rule book on pg 8 along with the hostile/friendly reaction table on pg 11.
I must protest bitterly that my aircraft still has not been painted red.
Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 1,596 Location: Schenectady Karma: 73
Re: Mike Carr's forgotton additions to Holmes « Reply #9 on Jul 8, 2010, 1:47pm »
Delve, do you have the document I typed up? Used to be a link in the under dark. I can send it to you. I basically typed out all the text containing the rules verbatim and organized it by topic. Probably could repost here but I better ask Fin first. I keep hoping he's going to bring back the lost links.
Re: Mike Carr's forgotton additions to Holmes « Reply #10 on Jul 8, 2010, 2:10pm »
No I didn't, but I'd be interested in reading it. A few snippets I made add to the Holmes Treasury, the final edit is going slow. Started packing this week for the move and finding hidden gems to add in make me want to slowly comb over material before publishing the final version.
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For those of you who have the module, I'm talking about page 3, 4, 5, and 26-27. There is really a lot of specifics in there.
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The open concept of monsters and treasures left to the DM to develop is one that I appreciate and enjoy. It inspires me to try something similar in the future. This is a great adventure.