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Post by vladtolenkov on Apr 24, 2013 21:46:20 GMT -6
(Forgive the ramble, but I do get around to my point eventually):
Okay. . .folks at this board are really comfortable with house ruling D&D. We sometimes even get into the debate of where do my houserules become a new game. I don't want to get into that issue, but I do love tinkering with game systems, and I love games that allow you to do this. I also love lots of other fantasy roleplaying games besided OD&D (the wellspring from which all awesomeness flows) like AD&D, Runequest (Especially 2nd ed.), Stormbringer, Rolemaster, Talislanta, Ars Magica, Palladium Fantasy (1st. ed only), The Fantasy Trip, Chivalry & Sorcery and many others.
You can see where my tastes run these days--which is funny because ten years ago I would have told you that games with too many rules were not to my taste. I was using Fudge and running all sorts of very rules lite games. However, thanks to the OSR and thinking about games in all sorts of new ways I've decided to embrace my inner rules tinker/designer, and I've been playing around with my own mish mash ruleset that takes from D&D and all of the rules heavy Fantasy sim games that I love.
So tell us here about the "house rules" and Frankenstein mishmash games that grew until they almost became something else.
My mish-mash ruleset borrows liberally from many of the games listed above. For example, it uses much of the combat system from Stormbringer/Runequest, incorporates the blows system from C&S, borrows a few rules from AD&D, draws some of its approach to character generation from both Rolemaster and Palladium, and takes its magic system inspirations from Talislanta.
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Post by cleverkobold on Apr 25, 2013 6:07:49 GMT -6
Tomorrow I will be running a house ruled frankengame that's based on the Long Live Fighting Men and Magic-Users rpg, with an added Burning Wheel-ish lifepath system, and 'Keys' from The Shadow of Yesterday; and the magic system is based on Magic:The Gathering, of all things.
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Post by vladtolenkov on Apr 25, 2013 8:38:31 GMT -6
Awesome. I stole some of the reward economy from Burning Wheel for the frankengame that I mentioned above--destiny and fate points as ways to temporarily increase your chances of success in using a skill. Skill increases happen through useage as in Runequest ( and Burning Wheel).
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Post by Vile Traveller on Apr 25, 2013 8:44:52 GMT -6
At the peak of my houseruling in the 80s I was running Traveller games with a RQ2/3 core with some Aftermath! touches (e.g. hit locations), incorporating GURPS quirks, advantages and disadvantages and a damage system developed from Task Force Games' Delta Force.
Now I run things RAW or I write my own rules from scratch.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 8:58:47 GMT -6
Interestingly I've gone the opposite way; I now run LBB straight up, plus character classes and spells from the supplements. But no variable weapon damage, no bonuses for stats other than in the original LBB, etc.
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Post by stevemitchell on Apr 25, 2013 8:59:15 GMT -6
My first fantasy campaign was a communal effort (we rotated GMs), in which we combined D&D OE for character generation, combat, and monsters; Tunnels & Trolls for magic; and Arduin Grimoire for character options and features. After a couple of years of fantasy gaming, we jumped the setting forward to a mostly magic-less, Renaissance-level era, and added elements from En Garde.
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Post by kesher on Apr 25, 2013 9:48:29 GMT -6
Okay, "frankengame" is now my term of choice. I'm currently running Classic Traveller mashed up with RISUS. We run the normal char gen process, then translate the results to RISUS. I've also been rolling up my sub-sector using the normal charts, and then translating the results into one or two RISUS cliches.
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Post by vladtolenkov on Apr 25, 2013 10:16:47 GMT -6
Interestingly I've gone the opposite way; I now run LBB straight up, plus character classes and spells from the supplements. But no variable weapon damage, no bonuses for stats other than in the original LBB, etc. I totally dig that too. When I first got on these forums I was a LBBs only guy for awhile. I think that running OD&D straight up is something that everybody interested in old school rpgs should try at least once. My natural tendency is to start to tinker--but I really only want to do this once I've got a handle on the rules as written.
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Post by geoffrey on Apr 25, 2013 10:38:51 GMT -6
rules base: the 1974 D&D boxed set I throw-out the Monsters & Treasure booket and replace it with Raggi's Random Esoteric Creature Generator. I throw-out the to-hit and saving throw tables and replace them with Delta's Target 20 system. I throw-out the experience system and replace it with Kilgore's roll-to-advance. I throw-out the demi-humans, and I jazz-up the humans with Arduin-style crazy skin, hair, and eye colors. I mostly ignore alignment (and certainly no alignment languages). I replace the standard magic-user spells with Matt Finch's spells from Eldritch Wizardry. I use Holmes's dexterity-based initiative. I use a coinage system similar to that found in Gary's Gord the Rogue novels. I do not allow adjustments to ability scores: 3d6 in order, set in stone. I re-roll hit points at each new level gained (as in Empire of the Petal Throne). Hit points can't decrease when a level is gained, but they might not increase. I let PCs start with maximum hp. I use the character hit dice and variable weapon damage from Greyhawk (though this latter is simplified). I pretty much ignore encumbrance unless a PC tries to carry a ridiculous amount. I greatly increase some of the costs on the equipment list. Things with high metal content (metallic armor, swords, etc.) are very expensive. The PCs tend to run around with leather armor, wooden shields, and spears. Horses also are very expensive. Undead are practically nonexistent in my campaign, so clerics' ability to turn undead is pretty much ignored. Instead of a system, I use DM fiat to resolve things not covered in the rules, relying upon common sense: "Hmmm. I'll say you have a 42% chance to succeed at that." I'm sure I'm forgetting some things, but the above pretty much describes how I'm playing the game.
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Post by kesher on Apr 25, 2013 10:41:56 GMT -6
What?? You?? No undead?? Not even mummy brains??
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Post by vladtolenkov on Apr 25, 2013 20:11:35 GMT -6
I'm sure I'm forgetting some things, but the above pretty much describes how I'm playing the game. That's great. No Arduin though?
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Post by geoffrey on Apr 26, 2013 10:00:39 GMT -6
I'm sure I'm forgetting some things, but the above pretty much describes how I'm playing the game. That's great. No Arduin though? Arduin is more like an invisible spirit that colors my campaign, rather than a list of stuff (this table from Arduin Grimoire 1, this class from AG2, etc.). I do use the crazy skin, hair, and eye colors, though! ;D
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Post by Falconer on Apr 28, 2013 19:06:57 GMT -6
I like my RPGs as rules-lite as possible, because I really don’t enjoy that aspect of RPGs (trying to remember rules, or worse, looking them up during a game). That said, I am very comfortable running a game using the AD&D 1e books (three cores) but with OD&D principles in mind (Matt’s Old School Primer — rulings not rules, etc.). I’m about to start a RQ2 campaign because I want the Gloranthan flavor, and I’m kind of nervous about it because I feel I still have to learn the RAW before I can really feel comfortable winging it. But I remember playing a game of LA with Gary that felt just like D&D, and I feel reassured that at the end of the day I can just “judge” the game with confidence.
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Post by Finarvyn on Apr 29, 2013 4:40:56 GMT -6
I like my RPGs as rules-lite as possible, because I really don’t enjoy that aspect of RPGs (trying to remember rules, or worse, looking them up during a game). I agree pretty much with your entire post, but especially the first bit (which I quoted above)! An EXALT for this!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2013 9:51:57 GMT -6
I’m about to start a RQ2 campaign because I want the Gloranthan flavor, and I’m kind of nervous about it because I feel I still have to learn the RAW before I can really feel comfortable winging it. RQ2 is a pretty easy game to run as long as you make all the bad guys have the same stats. Admittedly, that takes away some of the flexibility of the game, but it's a good way to start. My Frankengame: OD&D/Delving Deeper-style hit dice Combat system from Dragons at Dawn/Warriors of Mars No ability scores just modifiers and no set list of abilities No Cleric Monster's and player's hit die type varies by size 0-level funnel The rest of the game is B/X
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Post by vladtolenkov on Apr 29, 2013 13:14:22 GMT -6
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Post by Falconer on Apr 29, 2013 20:51:03 GMT -6
Thanks. Don’t worry, I’m not going to delve deep into Gloranthan lore. I’m running Griffin Mountain, which is pretty standalone and very sandboxy, so I’m in good hands.
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Post by vladtolenkov on Apr 30, 2013 8:21:32 GMT -6
Griffin Mountain is amazing.
You should start a thread in the Runequest section when you get a few sessions under your belt.
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Thorulfr
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 264
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Post by Thorulfr on May 1, 2013 13:27:31 GMT -6
Oh lords, my first long D&D/AD&D campaign started before the DM's Guide was published, so it used the PHB and MM, coupled with the Holmes and the supplements to fill in the gaps, along with tables filched from Ardiun, a critical hit and fumble system that was a mashup of RQ and Arduin, and the map of Middle Earth copied from the flyleaf of one of the paperback editions until I saved up enough to buy the Wilderlands supplements from Judge's Guild..
I think I twigged to critical hits early on because I was an avid player of Richthofen's War before I discovered the Holmes edition of D&D.
The second big nominally-AD&D (1981-82ish) campaign was even worse, using AD&D as the core mechanic, the magic system was a simplified version of Chivalry & Sorcery, Hit Locations from RQ, Critical Hits and fumbles from RQ and Ardiun and an article from the Dragon, and weapon tables from a now-tattered first edition of Palladium's Weapons and Armor. The setting was on a planet in a multiple star system vaguely inspired by Poul Anderson's novel Fire Time, with a mythology and culture that was classical India with the serial numbers filed off with a bit of Tékumel thrown in for seasoning. These required a lot of setting-specific house rules, including a system for reincarnation based vaguely on first edition Bushido. Combat had the players throwing three d20s to roll a hit - one for whether or not they hit, one for the location, and the third to determine whether they hit or fumbled. ...Yeah, it had gotten a bit out of hand.
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Post by Falconer on May 1, 2013 14:15:07 GMT -6
Oh lords, my first long D&D/AD&D campaign started before the DM's Guide was published, so it used the PHB and MM, coupled with the Holmes and the supplements to fill in the gaps, along with tables filched from Ardiun, a critical hit and fumble system that was a mashup of RQ and Arduin, and the map of Middle Earth copied from the flyleaf of one of the paperback editions Sweet. I often wish I were forcibly limited in resources to something like that.
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Post by vladtolenkov on May 1, 2013 15:46:31 GMT -6
The second big nominally-AD&D (1981-82ish) campaign was even worse, using AD&D as the core mechanic, the magic system was a simplified version of Chivalry & Sorcery, Hit Locations from RQ, Critical Hits and fumbles from RQ and Ardiun and an article from the Dragon, and weapon tables from a now-tattered first edition of Palladium's Weapons and Armor. The setting was on a planet in a multiple star system vaguely inspired by Poul Anderson's novel Fire Time, with a mythology and culture that was classical India with the serial numbers filed off with a bit of Tékumel thrown in for seasoning. These required a lot of setting-specific house rules, including a system for reincarnation based vaguely on first edition Bushido. Combat had the players throwing three d20s to roll a hit - one for whether or not they hit, one for the location, and the third to determine whether they hit or fumbled. ...Yeah, it had gotten a bit out of hand. Now that's a Frankengame!! Awesome.
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machpants
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Supersonic Underwear!
Posts: 259
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Post by machpants on May 1, 2013 16:59:40 GMT -6
My Franken-game is S&W Core based: S&W: Dungeonland My blog of it is here: machpants.blogspot.com Draft rules are here: dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96716307/S%26W%20Dungeonland%20v0.2%20(art%20free).pdfS&W Core with bits of S&W Complete, LotFP, Delving Deeper, ACKS, NOD, Knockspell, Crypts & Things, DCC, Red Tide, Lab Lord, AS&SoH and Vornheim. All the PCs are powered up, as it is to play with 2 of my kids (aged 7 and 9) in some pretty tough dungeons Rappan Athuk, Stonehell, ASE, Barrowmound etc
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Post by vladtolenkov on May 2, 2013 10:28:18 GMT -6
My Frankengame has now drawn in inspiration from Warhammer Fantasy and Ravenloft.
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eldrad
Level 3 Conjurer
Posts: 77
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Post by eldrad on May 8, 2013 17:23:42 GMT -6
My Frankengame came from my dissatisfaction with 2nd Addition AD&D and Warhammer FR being out of print as far as I knew and the love for the game Thief the Dark Project/The Metal Age.
This game became know as The Olde Realm. It basically became a New Weird Fiction and Swordpunk. Imagine giant Renaissance cities with strange technologies mixed with huge weird wildernesses in between. Cults and intrigues. Very offensive material and subject matter as such. Like a Renaissance version of Cyberpunk is kind of a good description.
It was a % based system where one could make a character in about 5 minutes with knowledge of the system. Our group played it for over 12-15 years THEN I suddenly got writer's block and cannot do anything with it until recently. I started a very offensive Blog called The Olde Realm and it catalogs The Olde Realm ideas and the game's development if I ever finish it.
Ah this post has inspired me to jot down a few notes.
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Post by machfront on May 20, 2013 8:51:25 GMT -6
Oh lords, my first long D&D/AD&D campaign started before the DM's Guide was published, so it used the PHB and MM, coupled with the Holmes and the supplements to fill in the gaps, along with tables filched from Ardiun, a critical hit and fumble system that was a mashup of RQ and Arduin, and the map of Middle Earth copied from the flyleaf of one of the paperback editions Sweet. I often wish I were forcibly limited in resources to something like that. Heh. It wasn't resources that forced me to Franken my Game. I don't do it much now, having been made to or too dumb to not do depending when I was young. My parents believed that D&D was a tool of Satan, see...but I had to play D&D. The younger of my two older sisters worked for a time at a small office supply company, so I had access after-hours to a copier. Thus, I had photocopies of stuff. (Note that I'm a youngin so this is in '86.) Bits of Mentzer, Fiend Folio. I owned MERP 1st ed. revised and a hidden away copy of the 1E PHB. I used the Condensed Combat article from Dragon #117 and critical hit charts from DragonRaid...yes.. DragonRaid. Really. Later we concentrated on MERP, but I eventually scored battered copies of B/X from a friend for a dollar and it was the 'core' for years until the RC was released... Now, when it's D&D, it's B/X with a very few house rules. But I'll admit that what my mind refers to as "Dragon Magazine D&D" is, in many ways, how I 'picture' D&D when I think of D&D in some full breadth.
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Post by machfront on May 20, 2013 8:56:49 GMT -6
I'm currently running Classic Traveller mashed up with RISUS. We run the normal char gen process, then translate the results to RISUS. I've also been rolling up my sub-sector using the normal charts, and then translating the results into one or two RISUS cliches. This tiny bit it very helpful to me, thanks. I can't believe I didn't think of approaching it that way before. I love RISUS and have used it quite a bit, especially as a 'replacement' for games too heavy for me (which is about 85% of all games, heh), but I've just used RISUS for such-and-such and core rules for flavor, etc. I never considered taking the original game, such as WFRP, creating a character and then putting it in RISUS terms. That's a nice way to approach it. I feel silly for not considering it before.
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gronkthebold
Level 3 Conjurer
That low level hireling who carries the 10 ft poles...
Posts: 69
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Post by gronkthebold on May 20, 2013 10:46:03 GMT -6
I pretty much run every game with a sprinkling or a massive injection of a number of elements from other RPGs or editions of the game I'm playing. Heck, I'm sure I couldn't run a game these days without adding in a few cherry picked rules from other games or some home brewed elements . That being said, I'm thinking after I'm finished my current campaign to play a mix of B/X without race-as-class (I prefer the idea that race is aesthetic, so players can be whatever they like for role playing fun rather than having to create new rules for a new race brought to the table), AD&D Hit Dice, Damage based on class (I give Fighters 1D6 unarmed damage so people can play monks if they wish.), the 0th level funnel from DCC (Or the background profession charts from WFRP 1E), and an option (Or more of a career "path") for fighters to become either the standard heavily armored combatant or an armor-less warrior whose AC improves with level (I myself prefer the second option as it feels more swords and sorcery to me, hooray for loincloths!)...oh, and the Arduin critical hit and fumble tables, those things are magnificent!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2013 19:16:48 GMT -6
My game WAS resource limited at the start.
Missed the D&D boat (Unearthed Arcana was the only book of that ilk in my local bookstore, in New Zealand, in the mid-80s...) but found a systtem of books called Dragon Warriors, combined with several White Dwarf and Dragon magazines that had fallen into my hands. Combined with a little of MERP, and finally reskinned with various bits of ACK and assorted miscellanea from Fight On!, Knockspell and even a few Kobold Quarterlys...
It's rules light and flexible, but I need to write down enough so that I can explain why things happen. I'm finding the OD&D stuff amazingly suitable, just with very different underlying game mechanics...
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Keith
Level 3 Conjurer
Posts: 61
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Post by Keith on Jun 9, 2013 8:32:45 GMT -6
I was introduced to D&D with a group of school friends who had copies of the LBBs +supplements, the MM, and several issues of The Dragon.
After a few weeks, it was summertime and I was exhilarated by the prospect of running my own game in the neighborhood (different group of friends). I begged my dad (who was quite the curmudgeon) to take us to the only hobby shop that sold wargames here in town. ("This is the most ridiculous d**n game I've ever seen," he said later.)
As it turns out, the game shop was going out of business. All I was able find was the Monster Manual, Greyhawk (the supplement), and a copy of Metamorphosis Alpha.
We were all science fiction fans anyway (I subscribed to Starlog from issue # 1, just to date myself), so MA was actually a good setting for our D&D game. I threw out the mutants on Starship Warden and used MM critters instead.
The adventure itself was a dungeon that was actually the insides of a ruined spaceship onboard Starship Warden. As I recall I used The Sword of Shannara as inspiration for a post-apocalypse fantasy "world."
The most frustrating thing for us was combat. The combat tables seemed mysterious, and we didn't really understand how that worked. I relied on the MA combat tables and swagged it to fit with the MM monster stat blocks.
I saved up money from mowing yards that summer, and got cash from family on my birthday that following October and Christmas, so I wound up mail-ordering copies of the LBBs, BM, and EW from TSR.
My school and neighborhood friends merged, more or less, and they all migrated to AD&D as the PHB and DMG were released. My heart stayed with the original rules, though ... they just "felt right." I'm not sure I knew why ... and to be honest, I'm not sure I know why to this day!
Still, I wasn't prudish. I DM'ed AD&D for all my friends, "unfolding" my home-brew Starship Warden maps and creating a "continent" out of them. The most treacherous country was the rather creepy "Land of the Hooded Robins." Nobody survived. Like Monty Python's Killer Rabbit, you don't want to mess with a hooded robin ...
Thanks for reading! Keith
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benoist
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
OD&D, AD&D, AS&SH
Posts: 346
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Post by benoist on Jun 9, 2013 12:14:55 GMT -6
I too used to house rule my games a lot. Now I prefer to not modify the actual framework of the game I use*. I may add some sub-systems, come up with spells and items of course, even add a specific character class or whatnot, and will use rulings over rules all the time, in some instances house ruling something organically, when it comes up time and time again, but I'm in a phase right now where I don't feel the need to revise a game from the ground up, or come up with one entirely of my own, for that matter.
Maybe that'll change in the future. I don't know.
* I did house rule OD&D a lot in one of the campaigns I ran with it and came up with an economy of actions based on equivalences in Men and damage given up for special maneuvers and the like. I'd still like to flesh that out thoroughly and publish it as its own "Supplement", with an associated setting and the traditional men and magic, monsters and treasures and underworld and wilderness adventures sections, one day.
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