Why not simultaneous combat all the time?

Variant initiative systems allow for tactical consideration regarding armor and weapons, and additional benefit for high dexterity.

Possibly a little bit of drama might be lost from scenarios such as...

* When one blow could kill, who will strike first?

* Can a PC put himself between the villain and his helpless victim before it's too late?

* Will missiles be loosed before or after the charging enemy crash into melee?

* Will a fleeing PC get around the corner/into cover before a barrage of missiles hit him in the back?

* Can a PC break off combat before the enemy attack?

* Can the magic-user complete his spell before the enemy puts a sword through him?

Also, this method risks introduction of a few illogical scenarios such as; the magic-user casts charm person at the same time as the villain slays him. Which of the two mutually exclusive actions actually happens?

Fun to think about thou

I have dropped initiative quite some time ago. I only require a roll when such situations occur. Actually it's like what Zenopus said.

I dropped init also it works fine.

-Mike

"....
Combat
A. The Alternative Combat System, D&D Book I will be used, as well as the Weapon Damage Table from GREYHAWK. Only the "against man-sized opponents" column.
B. Melee starts when opponents come to within 10' of each other. All blows are considered simultaneous, except as detailed under Surprise.
C. No "initiative die" system will be used in the tournament. ....."

The above is from the GenCon IX (1976) Tournament Rules, published by Judges Guild. What I'm not sure of is whether they were Judges Guild only adventure rules or whether they were TSR's rules for the whole tournament. In any case, the "no initiative" idea has a long history.

Wow. I didn't know that.

I think it makes relatively little difference in OD&D combat. You can still keep order-of-attack, such as spells before melee, but melee means "a big huddle of people hitting each other". It's also quite possible for people to kill each other, so I don't see that as a problem.

If spells go first, a character would be charmed before he got a chance to attack the caster. Tactics, like in real life, would concentrate on achieving surprise - once fighting starts, it all gets pretty chaotic.

In summary, I can well live without initiative in a 60-second abstracted combat round. Once you get down to 10 seconds or so, I'd think about keeping it.

Wow! Always going first is a pretty serious advantage!

This actually is a really fun question to try to answer analytically. I can't claim to offer any definitive answers or provide the most rigorous analysis, but I think I can fill in some of the blanks.

This article entitled "Horse Speed in MPH - How fast is your horse going?" says that different types of horse gallop at different rates:

• A thoroughbred gallops at 40mph ≈ 59 fps. These horses are long distance racers.
  
• A quarter horse gallops at 50mph ≈ 73 fps. These horses run in short bursts.
  
• Non race horses gallop at 30mph = 44 fps.
  

So let's say quarter horses are charging long bowmen.

The section on "Range and penetration" in the article on the English Longbow states

The range of the medieval weapon is not accurately known, with estimates from 165 to 228 m (180 to 249 yds). Modern longbows have a useful range up to 180 m (200 yd). A 667 N (150 lbf) Mary Rose replica longbow was able to shoot a 53.6 g (1.9 oz) arrow 328 m (360 yd) and a 95.9 g (3.3 oz) a distance of 249.9 m (272 yd).

Let's say it's 200 yards (= 600 feet).

Reaction time will be a factor. Let's say the longbowmen start to react when the cavalry get in range. The Great Soviet Encyclopedia (1979) says

For a simple reaction the average human reaction time in the most favorable cases is no less than 0.15 seconds (recognition of visual images is no less than 0.4 seconds)

At the moment the cavalry gets in range 600 feet away, the long bowmen will have 8.22 seconds to shoot before they arrive. If it takes 0.22 (>0.15 second minimum reaction time) seconds to react, they'll only have 8 seconds. And in this 0.22 second interval, the cavalry will travel 0.22 seconds * 73 fps = 16 feet, leaving 8 seconds and 584 feet left to go before crashing into the long bowmen.

There are "10 basic steps to shoot a longbow":

• Stance
  
• Nocking the arrow
  
• Hand position
  
• Pre-draw preparation
  
• Drawing the bow
  
• The reference point
  
• Holding and aiming
  
• The Loose
  
• Follow through
  
• Relaxing
  

Now, unfortunately, this article doesn't state how long it takes to get to step #8, "The Loose." But the section on "Shooting rate" in the Wikipedia article says the maximum rate would be about 6 per minute or about 10 seconds for all 10 steps.

So "the loose" could conceivably happen right before or right after contact with the cavalry in 8 seconds. This vulnerability of archers to cavalry charge is why "they were often deployed behind physical barricades, such as stakes and poles driven into the ground..."

If you're earnest about doing a rigorous mathematical calculation, you might also find this Q&A entitled "How fast does an arrow fly?" of some interest. It says, "In general terms, an arrow shot from a recurve or longbow will speed along at approximately 150-250 fps."

Great work Aher -- have an exalt for your intriguing analysis ;D


However, the alternative approach to an exhaustive mathematical study is to "roll for initiative".

It may not be forensically accurate and nor should it be; this is a game of fantasy, after all. Rolling for initiative also has the enormous advantages of being utterly simple, and of being ubiquitously applicable!

Mathematically, winning initiative every round an infinite number of times is the equivalent of one extra attack. So for a long drawn out fight winning initiative all the time has an advantage measurable as a fraction of one attack, which doesn't really justify all the fuss over precedence.

Initiative matters for combats which might only take a single round or a couple of rounds, ambushes, surprise and flee encounters and so on because both parties might not get to attack in the last round.

I suppose one could sensibly reduce initiative rolling to those rounds where it is conceivable someone might die or those rounds where someone tries to flee.



Good stuff aher.

Han shooting first.