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_Playing at the World_ and Domesday Book #1 « Thread Started on Aug 4, 2012, 12:50am »
Jon Peterson's book _Playing at the World_ is a new, comprehensive early history of the development of RPGs out of wargames through about 1978 TSR, and is well-worth checking out if you're interested in the history of the hobby.
Jon recently started a blog with two interesting posts featuring scans of these very rare publications:
Finarvyn Administrator Dungeon Master member is offline
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Re: _Playing at the World_ and Domesday Book #1 « Reply #1 on Aug 4, 2012, 5:48am »
Has anyone actually had a chance to read this? I'm really interested, but (1) 700 pages is a lot to read, and (2) $35 is a lot to spend if it turns out only to have a small section on OD&D.
The only two reviews on Amazon are by friends of the author.
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
Re: _Playing at the World_ and Domesday Book #1 « Reply #2 on Aug 4, 2012, 8:47am »
I have a hard copy on order from Amazon that is supposed to arrive in a week. Might take a while to finish it (720 pages!) but I will post some impressions when I get it.
I bought the book based on the strength of the author's writing in several Acaeum posts, his blog, and the Amazon "Look Inside" preview, which shows shows 100+ pages (of the Kindle version), including the entire Table of Contents. It looks like the content breaks down like this:
Chapter 1: 1964-1974 - The immediate Midwest predecessors to D&D, such as Castle & Crusade society, Chainmail, Blackmoor, etc Chapter 2: History of fantasy literature - basically, a chapter on Appendix N books Chapter 3: History of game rules - covers wargaming from the 18th century forward through D&D Chapter 4: History of playing roles in games Chapter 5: "Dawn of Role-Playing" 1974-1977
"Story tellers are always careful to point out that the reputed dungeons lie in close proximity to the foundations of an older, pre-human city, to the graveyard, and to the sea.” - Holmes rulebook
Zenopus Archives - Holmes Basic D&D - website & blog
Re: _Playing at the World_ and Domesday Book #1 « Reply #3 on Aug 4, 2012, 10:56pm »
The book also has an epilogue which covers the way that RPGs made the leap to computers, as well as a few other topics.
Chapters One and Five are a straight-up history of the creation and reception of OD&D, respectively. In Five I also discuss variants and competitors as they arose.
I'd say that Chapter Two is about half Appendix N and half explaining how and why those books stimulated D&D, exactly. One interesting thing about the fantasy literature singled out by OD&D is that it wasn't just about fantastic worlds, but most often about mundane people temporarily visiting them. I spend a lot of time talking about the relationship of that narrative arc to what we do when we play D&D.
Chapter Three starts off with a long and detailed history that covers wargaming from chess variants of the 18th century to the hobby community of the 1950s. The second part of the chapter then shows how the basic system elements of D&D (dice, secret maps, hit points, armor class, experience, etc) all emerged from those wargames, with an especial concentration on how Chainmail and Blackmoor used these ideas.
Chapter Four is largely about precursors to RPGs. It covers many of the early systems and communities that included role-playing elements before D&D: things like Coventry, Hyboria, Midgard, the SCA and Diplomacy fandom. This is pretty much the only Chapter that isn't "about" D&D as such, though you still see Gygax and Arneson poking around in there. This chapter also focuses on science-fiction fandom, and explains the influence of that community on games of the 60s and 70s.
And in fairness, while one of the Amazon reviewers is an old friend of mine, the other had certainly never heard of me before he held an advance copy of my book in his hands.
Joined: Jul 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 372 Karma: 40
Re: _Playing at the World_ and Domesday Book #1 « Reply #4 on Aug 4, 2012, 11:45pm »
I am into the 2nd chapter now having gotten it for my kindle. So far I have to say it is a fantastic read and going to be the standard by which other RPG histories will be judged by. Mainly because, Jon Peterson, the author, documents just about every statement by referencing original documents or through interviews of participants.
If there is a downside to the book, it would have to be the fact is an academic work not written as a popular history. It only a downside because some people don't enjoy that style of writing.
Also for your Blackmoor and Greyhawk fans it has a copy of the Great Kingdom map that appeared in Doomsday #9. And surprisingly it doesn't look like a redrawn map of North America and a lot like a proto Flaness.
« Last Edit: Aug 4, 2012, 11:45pm by robertsconley »
And in fairness, while one of the Amazon reviewers is an old friend of mine, the other had certainly never heard of me before he held an advance copy of my book in his hands.
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you were stuffing the ballot box. Just curious if anyone who posts here had read it yet, and what they thought of it.
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
Also for your Blackmoor and Greyhawk fans it has a copy of the Great Kingdom map that appeared in Doomsday #9. And surprisingly it doesn't look like a redrawn map of North America and a lot like a proto Flaness.
I'll repost what I said on K&K re this.
Quote:
I dunno, I see the Flaness in it but I'm really seeing a poorly drawn rendition of the north-eastern region of North America with the Great Bay as Hudson Bay ("summer passage to far ocean" is the Northwest Passage), the Nir Dyv being the Great Lakes, the Far Ocean being the Arctic Ocean, the Dry Steppes being the prairies. And the Western Ocean makes sense in that context. And the Virginias and Kentucky below sea level unless it's just the crudity of the rendition.
Mind you, I really like the idea of Greyhawk being located on some alternate reality medieval Earth... ...Upon further reflection I'm thinking that if it's not the crudity of the rendition than the Domesday Book map depicts an alternate North America with a higher sea level.
Which makes sense, if it's a hotter Earth that accounts for more deserts as well as the presumably temperate climate of Blackmoor.
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you were stuffing the ballot box. Just curious if anyone who posts here had read it yet, and what they thought of it.
I've been reading the Kindle preview, and it's quite good thus far, Marv: dig in yourself and check it out. You can read the Kindle preview on the actual Amazon page even if you don't have a Kindle, and can also download the Kindle PC application for free and read it there too: see http://www.amazon.com/dp/0615642047/ and click on the picture
I only hope that the images in the book for the maps and such are quite a bit bigger than what I see in the Kindle preview, since they're pretty small (I can't make out any detail on the DB#9 map, for example).
Finarvyn Administrator Dungeon Master member is offline
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Re: _Playing at the World_ and Domesday Book #1 « Reply #10 on Aug 6, 2012, 6:28am »
I did go and read part of the Blackmoor section. I like what I saw, and I can't decide if I want to read it now or wait for the book. I kind of hate to spoil the surprise by reading ahead, although I'm pretty sure I'll skip ahead and read Blackmoor first anyway when my copy arrives.
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
I only hope that the images in the book for the maps and such are quite a bit bigger than what I see in the Kindle preview, since they're pretty small (I can't make out any detail on the DB#9 map, for example).
Yes the maps and other images enlarged on the kindle, ipad and PC by clicking (touching) them. I was able to retrieve it out of my iPad at a much higher rez.
Joined: Jul 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 477 Karma: 37
Re: _Playing at the World_ and Domesday Book #1 « Reply #13 on Aug 6, 2012, 5:09pm »
Far out. I'm going to have to get this... AFTER I write "We made up some nuts we thought would be fun," which is my memoir of gaming 1972 - 1980.
It'll be interesting to compare historical documentation against "this is what happened when I was a sixteen year old kid hanging around with Gary Gygax, as best as I can remember forty years later."
Michael Mornard -------------------------- Played in the original Blackmoor, Greyhawk, and EPT Campaigns "Gronan of Simmerya" aka "Old Geezer" aka "LORD Grumpy"
Re: _Playing at the World_ and Domesday Book #1 « Reply #14 on Aug 6, 2012, 5:24pm »
And to be totally clear, Mike, I think both memory and history have their place and both yield valuable results. I love 40 Years of Gen Con, but I think it serves a really different purpose than an anthology of documentary evidence.
From the times I had the opportunity to speak with Dave Arneson, he frequently answered my "why?" questions with "we were kids, we made something up and it worked." Somehow that came across as far more believable than some other detailed accounts I heard from other sources.
If I may say so, I think you get a pretty good plug in Playing at the World.
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Just curious if anyone who posts here had read it yet, and what they thought of it.
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