Re: Dungeon World... « Reply #1 on May 19, 2012, 12:35am »
Yes. It looks like a great game. I have Apocalypse World, but I have not played this yet. I am new to all this dungeon crawling thing, but I should try to run a dungeon with this rule set to see how it works.
Marv / Finarvyn DCC playtester (2011) C&C playtester (2003) I'm partly responsible for the S&W WhiteBox Builder of the TrollBridge Master of Mutants; MA since 1976 OD&D Player since 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" - Dave Arneson
Re: Dungeon World... « Reply #4 on May 19, 2012, 8:16am »
The game is not broken at all. Been running it since it started out as Apocalypse D&D (2 years ago) and now it's in the nearly finished form of Dungeon World 2.2 beta.
It's a great game that captures a lot of the feel of D&D.
AW is also a really awesome game, different from DW.
Can you elaborate on this? I've not seen or played either DW or AW and am curious as to what they do that other RPGs don't, and what's broken.
Apocalypse World is essentially a narrativist game, whereas character moves (and other rules) push towards that kind of gameplay (that has never belonged to D&D).
DW tried to adapt AW into a D&D-esque shape, but the theory behind those moves (and the whole game) is still too close to AW to work perfectly in a D&D-esque context.
In few words it's not a so fluid game as AW really is, because there's still some work to do (that's basically the reason why the game is still in its Beta phase).
Apocalypse World is essentially a narrativist game, whereas character moves (and other rules) push towards that kind of gameplay (that has never belonged to D&D).
DW tried to adapt AW into a D&D-esque shape, but the theory behind those moves (and the whole game) is still too close to AW to work perfectly in a D&D-esque context.
In few words it's not a so fluid game as AW really is, because there's still some work to do (that's basically the reason why the game is still in its Beta phase).
Just wanted to share a few thoughts on this:
First off, the current beta (2.2) is "finished" as far as mechanics and text goes. Beta 2.3 adds an extended example and some appendices. From here on it's fine tuning and editing, so we don't plan on changing much. As a game design it's essentially finished, we're just making it presentable.
The reason we don't plan on changing much is because, so far as we've seen or heard, the game is working great. I've been playing in a weekly game and d**n do I enjoy it. If you've played and haven't enjoyed it, we'd love to hear about it. As akooser pointed out, we're as open as we can be about the game because feedback makes it better!
All that said, I'd disagree that AW (or DW) is a narrative game (assuming we have roughly similar definitions). Neither game has metagame story-enforcement elements. They create a narrative, sure, but they do that by helping create intense interesting situations, not by framing scenes or setting up character arcs. My paladin died, just like that, because he bravely (and foolishly) rushed a monster. There wasn't a narrative consideration at all, it was all what would happen in the world: you stride up at a flaming skull without noticing the explosive runes on the floor, you end up getting blown through the air. In retrospect it makes a great story, but nothing in the rules or in our play at the time took the story into consideration.
You've mentioned the game didn't flow and grinding gears, could you elaborate? In my experience the "just say what you're doing, moves kick in as needed" thing makes DW extremely smooth. What was making those gears grind?
Re: Dungeon World... « Reply #11 on May 20, 2012, 8:09am »
I don't know nothing, but as far as I understand it no game is or isn't narrativist. Players (or groups) are.
Beyond that, I found some AW moves meta-game mechanics, and because of that I found AW a story-oriented game (in the same precise way as Poison'd and Dogs in the Vinceyard are).
But that's not important here, I think. What matters is how you play the game. And for so many people it works really well, it seems. But not every game is for every body. There are good games, there are bad games, and there are good games that some people do not like. If you don't like how the game runs that does not mean the game is broken. It only mean that it's not the game for you, IMO.
Can you elaborate on this? I've not seen or played either DW or AW and am curious as to what they do that other RPGs don't, and what's broken.
I confess that I have not played AW yet, but I have played Dogs (a beautiful game by the same author) and I loved it. It's an entirely different dynamic. It's hard to explain. It's like trying to explain why The Schindler's List is a completely different movie that Jurassic Park. (Or Close Encounters that, I don't know, some David Lynch movie.) Both are films, right, both have similar concepts behind them (both have actors, and digital visual effects and music, for example), but both provide completely different experiences.
It is valid to play all these games, but keeping in mind that they are different things and that each provide a different kind of satisfaction. That way you avoid suffering frustration at not finding what you are looking for.
I was unaware of the existence of racist/aryan games, LOL.
If a game doesn't run fluid that can depend on a lot of factors, ranging from uncompleteness (DW is a Beta) to blurry goals.
If I like Captain America and I don't like U.S. Agent, that can simply mean that Steve Rogers has just better stories than John Walker and not that Walker is not a character for me.
Re: Dungeon World... « Reply #14 on May 20, 2012, 11:33am »
@Azafuse You haven't supported your "DW is a broken and incomplete game". You seem to be just repeating yourself here so I am going to bow out of this conversation with you.
@Finarvyn I can't answer the first part of your question only Azafuse can. I can address the second part about what the game does. I'll try and get a write up out later this afternoon/evening.
Over at github is the full 2.2 CC-BY text https://github.com/Sagelt/Dungeon-World
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