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Post by gloriousbattle on Aug 21, 2011 9:51:54 GMT -6
One of the things I liked about 2e was the publication of the historical sourcebooks. In particular, I ran/played in a The Glory of Rome campaign that was my favorite game ever, and an A Mighty Fortress (D&D set in the swashbuckling period) campaign that also went over quite well.
Note that by "historical", I mean a game played as close to actual history as possible, and by "semi-historical", a game that is historically based, but perhaps veers widely from actual history, or contains fantastic elements like spells and monsters.
Curious who has done similar, and what the game was like.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 20:37:00 GMT -6
IMO and IMC, neither. I run strictly a homebrew campaign and it tends more towards Arnesonian D&D than it does to Gygaxian D&D.
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Post by DungeonDevil on Aug 22, 2011 13:09:13 GMT -6
RL Humanities should merely serve as a source of ideas for inclusion in a fantasy/S&S campaign, and not be used to impose boundaries. Rigid adherence to documented history is a hallmark of wargaming, not FRPGs.
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Post by darkling on Aug 22, 2011 13:33:51 GMT -6
I've never used OD&D to do so, but I've run a couple of historical campaigns in my day, all to great success.
Three were historical fantasy games run using a custom system derived from Ars Magica 3e. And then I had a wonderful campaign using the little known system Run out the Guns which focused on the daughter of a merchant trader who had been murdered in the Caribbean in the 17th century. She, his old bosun, a mercenary, and an eccentric scholar took the dead man's ship named Mistral and tore up the islands on a search for blood and vengeance that entangled them with the workings of a Lovecraftian cult (although there were no supernatural elements in the gameplay itself, it was left up to the players to determine whether the cultists had really been threatening the world with their attempts to raise a monstrosity, or if it was just the ravings of madmen).
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Post by kesher on Aug 22, 2011 14:13:29 GMT -6
I've never used OD&D to do so, but I've run a couple of historical campaigns in my day, all to great success. Three were historical fantasy games run using a custom system derived from Ars Magica 3e. And then I had a wonderful campaign using the little known system Run out the Guns which focused on the daughter of a merchant trader who had been murdered in the Caribbean in the 17th century. She, his old bosun, a mercenary, and an eccentric scholar took the dead man's ship named Mistral and tore up the islands on a search for blood and vengeance that entangled them with the workings of a Lovecraftian cult (although there were no supernatural elements in the gameplay itself, it was left up to the players to determine whether the cultists had really been threatening the world with their attempts to raise a monstrosity, or if it was just the ravings of madmen). Awesome. There's also Redwald, the early development of which was encouraged on these very boards. Though a fictional setting, and the system only loosely D&Dish, it's dead-on Anglo-Saxon. The magic system in particular is wonderful. It'd be pretty easy to adapt it for "straighter" D&D.
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jjarvis
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 278
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Post by jjarvis on Aug 22, 2011 14:54:15 GMT -6
I've done semi-historical a few times. A Victorian era game that included a trip and extended adventures on mars before retuning to earth and thwarting an evil cabal tryign to start a world-war a few years early.
A musketeer era game with magic and city hopping adventures.
A couple sessions of adventure that mixed D&D and Boothill in a burroughesque valley of gwangi dinosaur hunting lost city setting. That one wold have been fun to expand into a wider campaign but I could see where there were limits.
I played in a game years back where the Germans had won WW2 and the PCs were part of the resistance fighting back with a little bit of magical help, it was inspired by an old D&D magazine article.
Currently I'm DMing a historically inspired campaign with the PC's being old-worlders exploring and conquering the new world. It's not earth but there's a whole bunch of analogs. It's mostly humans doing horrible things to other humans.
D&D can work in world's outside of the quasi-medieval one just has to nudge rules and expectations the tiniest amounts.
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Post by badger2305 on Aug 22, 2011 16:20:20 GMT -6
I've done semi-historical a few times. A Victorian era game that included a trip and extended adventures on mars before retuning to earth and thwarting an evil cabal tryign to start a world-war a few years early. A musketeer era game with magic and city hopping adventures. A couple sessions of adventure that mixed D&D and Boothill in a burroughesque valley of gwangi dinosaur hunting lost city setting. That one wold have been fun to expand into a wider campaign but I could see where there were limits. I played in a game years back where the Germans had won WW2 and the PCs were part of the resistance fighting back with a little bit of magical help, it was inspired by an old D&D magazine article. Currently I'm DMing a historically inspired campaign with the PC's being old-worlders exploring and conquering the new world. It's not earth but there's a whole bunch of analogs. It's mostly humans doing horrible things to other humans. D&D can work in world's outside of the quasi-medieval one just has to nudge rules and expectations the tiniest amounts. These are all great ideas for campaigns - any chance we can get you to describe them in more detail? I would really like that.
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Post by geoffrey on Aug 22, 2011 17:13:15 GMT -6
The world in which I have most often conducted campaigns is fantasy Earth, with timeframes typically ranging from circa 300 B. C. to A. D. 1500. It's dang easy to do:
"MY campaign world? Um... It's 13th-century France, with magic."
Even Gary's own Greyhawk campaign was set on fantasy Earth.
The trick is to not forget the term "fantasy" in fantasy Earth. This isn't history class. It's not names and dates and such. Rather, it's more of a romantic "Let's indulge ourselves in fantasies of the days of castles, knights in shining armor, fair maidens, etc." Prester John, King Arthur, and all the other legendary, less-than-historical personages are fair game. Probably the best published example of what I'm talking about is Gary's own Epic of Aerth for his Dangerous Journeys: Mythus FRPG. Heck, I used to use that as my campaign sourcebook.
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Post by badger2305 on Aug 22, 2011 18:45:11 GMT -6
The world in which I have most often conducted campaigns is fantasy Earth, with timeframes typically ranging from circa 300 B. C. to A. D. 1500. It's dang easy to do: "MY campaign world? Um... It's 13th-century France, with magic." Even Gary's own Greyhawk campaign was set on fantasy Earth. The trick is to not forget the term "fantasy" in fantasy Earth. This isn't history class. It's not names and dates and such. Rather, it's more of a romantic "Let's indulge ourselves in fantasies of the days of castles, knights in shining armor, fair maidens, etc." Prester John, King Arthur, and all the other legendary, less-than-historical personages are fair game. Probably the best published example of what I'm talking about is Gary's own Epic of Aerth for his Dangerous Journeys: Mythus FRPG. Heck, I used to use that as my campaign sourcebook. Sure, I can see that. However, I can also see doing things historically - except when you aren't. Case in point: my C&S 1st Edition campaign, set in 1195 AD. Richard is hammering away at Phillip, John is trying to play both of them against one another, and Innocent is not yet Pope; Celestine is hanging on. In the midst of all of this, there are still Fair Folk to be found - every now and again the Queen of Avalon will send an embassy to Albion, and magic works, too. Interesting things are happening in Toulouse, and the fate of the Holy Church may depend on the outcome. I don't run C&S exactly as written; the magic system is magnificent and incomprehensible. But there's enough there to make it fun, and I've had a grand time reading LOTS and LOTS of history of the Angevin Empire, watching The Lion in Winter, and generally steeping myself in the history of the period. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction, e.g. how Richard dealt with Isaac of Cyprus, or what really happened to Ingeborg of Denmark?
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jjarvis
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 278
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Post by jjarvis on Aug 22, 2011 21:40:18 GMT -6
... Currently I'm DMing a historically inspired campaign with the PC's being old-worlders exploring and conquering the new world. It's not earth but there's a whole bunch of analogs. It's mostly humans doing horrible things to other humans. .... These are all great ideas for campaigns - any chance we can get you to describe them in more detail? I would really like that.[/quote] Since you asked here's a little bit on the current campaign. Aroa is a Europena Analog and a number of nations are in competition with each other restrained by the power of the Celestial Orthodoxy. The player map for my current campaign is posted here: aeonsnaugauries.blogspot.com/2011/08/map-of-new-lands.htmlLormmic Trade Representative Dux Petrus de Asnens. Petrus is the third son of a Lormmic prince and resents his position but is willing to make the most of it. He wishes to expand colonial possessions beyond the direct authority of the church policed zone. He isn't past taking advantage of poorly written regulations to bypass church authority over trade. Duca Claudio Avello Agostino. Duke Claudio has laid claim to a large region west of Sophia but lacks the resources to exploit those holdings and is building his fortune managing trade for the homeland. Hesparran Ambasador of Trade Emelio De'Bartha. Is a middle aged gentleman currently appointed by the authorities of Puerto Esperanza to mange Hesparran interests in Sophia. He's church-going but unkempt and a tad vulgar. Other Settlements Puerto Esperanza (Port Hope) is the oldest Aroan settlement in the new world and the largest but was denied supremacy when the church decreed limits on trade and colonization. Puerto Esperanza is the only true Aroan city in the west. A garrison of of 400 to 800 helps maintain order and is used to project Royal power when needed. The House of Families rules Puerto Esperanza in the name of the Royal Crown. There are 11 noble families recognized with authority and responsibility to exploit and colonize the west. Shifting the machinations of these ambitious families so far from the throne is currently serving to stabilize Hesparra . population: 3,000 in city proper (plus 1,500 slaves) and 2,000 in nearby countryside (plus an additional 10,000-20,000 slaves) The slave trade is of prime interest to many of the Hesparrans who use slaves to labor in sugar and tobak plantations and even ship numbers of slaves to Aroa and the distant east. The church forbids enslaving those who have recognized the faith of Celestial Orthodoxy and the Hesparran officials dislike missionaries converting locals. Ververvesting- A Prythonian settlement to the north of Sophia. Population: 800. This colony is established to grow tobak, most of the population are indentured servants. There is a small garrison of 20-30 men at arms. Casa Fino- A Triotian colony of population 2,000 laying 230 miles south of Sophia. Mostly criminal transportees and political dissidents. There is a garrison of 50 men at arms stationed here able to raise about 100 more from among the free-men if there is need. Babordhalla- a Lormmic port. Mostly a royal naval way-station with a population of 600 or so souls (and maybe 500 slaves) that isn't too picky about who they allow to dock and trade. The church accuses locals of smuggling from the port but has little authority. Dux Petrus in Sophia has influence but no authority over the port. The port is currently under command of Admiral Altus Blume who has little interest outside maintaining his squadron of vessels and the safety of his men. Auguston- A young Riperian colony of Thagians seeking a home outside of the corrupt Aroan lands some 500 miles north of Sophia. Technically under the authority of the crown but they have yet to pay taxes in their five years of existence. Population: 400 Able to raise a militia of 130 in need. There's a number of native peoples not indicated on the Player Map. Hillmen- a variety of minor tribes that has until recently suffered becasue of Aroan Colonization. The Hillman culture is found in the church Mandate, to the north east along the peninsula on the southern edge of the August Gulf and along the coastal lands westward towards the Gold Sea. Wallagaunch- a large nation of natives closely related to some of the Hillman tribes. Along the Northest border of the Church Mandate it currently serves as a buffer between established Aroan Colonies and the Snake Garters. Snake Garters- a large aggresive nation of native tribesmen. Their larger settlements are collection of fortified hill forts that present attackers with the difficulty of assaulting several forts at a time. The Snake Garters homeland is just west of the Wallagaunch along the headwaters of the Rio Verde and Raiding parties strike along the Rio De Las Espadas Roja. The Snake Garters have been projectign power south of their territory and not too concerned about the strange Aroans until lately as they have suffered minor raids at the hands of Aroan freebooters. Makar- a large loosely organized tribe along the northern shore of the Gold Sea with much presence along the southern extents of the Rio De Las Espadas Roja. The Makar are friendly to Aroans encouraged by the trade opportunities presented by Aroan goods despite their otherwise skittish superstitions. Benacapka- a hostile people north of the Makar. They have made limited unfreindly contact with Aroans. Shoumay- a people mostly ignorant of Aroans dwelling north of the Benacapka. Rumors indicate there are cities of gold somewhere on the further extents of their territory. The native peoples are in the main stone age civilizations at various stages of development. Some Tribes are just starting to realize the Aroans may be a threat. The Aroans have an edge thanks to their metal weapons and armor in addition to a wider and more developed set of magical crafts. The native peoples do display a some magics unknown to Aroans and there are rumors of cities of wizards in the southern jungles. The PCs have employed Hillmen guides and warriors on a few occasions. Recent raids launched by the PCs have enabled the groups Magic-User to recruit a small following of Hillmen impressed by his magic. The party is currently traveling northward along the Rio De Las Espadas Roja chasing rumors of gold. That all just touches on the campaign which is meant to model early European colonization of the New World. Aroan expansion is held in check somewhat thanks to a powerful well organized church that holds a lot of it's power because of it's almost complete domination of priestly magics. Even this church isn't immune to political pressure from within and without and it may be reaching the limits of it's power.
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Post by Falconer on Aug 22, 2011 21:48:49 GMT -6
I’ve been intrigued by the idea of a Roman campaign since watching the Rome TV series.
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jjarvis
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Posts: 278
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Post by jjarvis on Aug 22, 2011 21:57:56 GMT -6
I’ve been intrigued by the idea of a Roman campaign since watching the Rome TV series. Yeah, that series is a great example as to how one can organize city adventuress and the so-called endgame in a campaign.
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Post by gloriousbattle on Aug 23, 2011 6:47:51 GMT -6
...She, his old bosun, a mercenary, and an eccentric scholar took the dead man's ship named Mistral and tore up the islands on a search for blood and vengeance that entangled them with the workings of a Lovecraftian cult (although there were no supernatural elements in the gameplay itself, it was left up to the players to determine whether the cultists had really been threatening the world with their attempts to raise a monstrosity, or if it was just the ravings of madmen). I really like that. People tend to forget that, though magic didn't work historically, most people firmly believed that it did, and acted accordingly. Simply not letting the players in on what works and what doesn't could be a lot of fun.
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Post by gloriousbattle on Aug 23, 2011 7:44:53 GMT -6
I've done semi-historical a few times. A Victorian era game that included a trip and extended adventures on mars before retuning to earth and thwarting an evil cabal tryign to start a world-war a few years early. Victorian Sci Fi / Fantasy can be an enormous amount of fun. It is slightly campy by nature, and I love the Burroughs elements. It can also be one of the cheapest and easiest genres to game, miniatures-wise. Buy half a dozen or so Victorian era soldiers, scientists, archaeologists and big game hunters (and maybe a clockwork automaton), and paint 'em. Then buy a few bags of prepainted toy dinosaurs, and giant lizards, snakes and bug. Plop 'em all down in a Lost World, and you're ready to go.
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Post by gloriousbattle on Aug 23, 2011 7:46:52 GMT -6
Even Gary's own Greyhawk campaign was set on fantasy Earth. IIUC, there were a lot of historical parallels. The Great Kingdom was Czarist Russia, Furyondy was Valois France, etc.
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Post by DungeonDevil on Aug 23, 2011 15:54:32 GMT -6
Even Gary's own Greyhawk campaign was set on fantasy Earth. IIUC, there were a lot of historical parallels. The Great Kingdom was Czarist Russia, Furyondy was Valois France, etc. Source, please?
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Post by gloriousbattle on Aug 24, 2011 9:00:06 GMT -6
IIUC, there were a lot of historical parallels. The Great Kingdom was Czarist Russia, Furyondy was Valois France, etc. Source, please? Some post I read on TMP years ago and couldn't find now to save my life.
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Post by sulldawga on Aug 24, 2011 10:34:21 GMT -6
Would it be cool to refer to a blog here where the author has a ton of reference material on how to play a historical campaign (not sure what set of rules he uses but I believe it's sufficiently OD&D-esque to interest this crowd)? Not sure of the house rules on this site.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2011 12:01:25 GMT -6
Fin may correct me, but most sources of info are just that and even if the author references some other set of rules, it is usually easy to use the ideas and info in OD&D.
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Post by gloriousbattle on Aug 24, 2011 13:58:17 GMT -6
Would it be cool to refer to a blog here where the author has a ton of reference material on how to play a historical campaign (not sure what set of rules he uses but I believe it's sufficiently OD&D-esque to interest this crowd)? Not sure of the house rules on this site. I'd love to see it, provided that it doesn't break the site's rules, but referencing a written work is not a copyright violation.
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Post by sulldawga on Aug 25, 2011 19:54:38 GMT -6
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Post by gloriousbattle on Aug 27, 2011 14:28:07 GMT -6
Interesting. I'm going to have to examine that site closely. Looks like a lot of good stuff. Thanks!
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Post by jmccann on Aug 28, 2011 22:19:35 GMT -6
RL Humanities should merely serve as a source of ideas for inclusion in a fantasy/S&S campaign, and not be used to impose boundaries. Rigid adherence to documented history is a hallmark of wargaming, not FRPGs. And what is wrong with that pray tell? <fierce look> Just kidding, each to his/her own.
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Post by howandwhy99 on Sept 6, 2011 19:25:05 GMT -6
Gotta say, with the homebrew smorgasbord setting adding real world historical elements is a great way to generate interest from players. The easiest thing to do is to planar travel some objects in, but people are possible too, if a bit more difficult.
I do agree that as a script of events that will happen, it won't really work. If the players are in the environment, the history is going to change from the sequence of events a historian is trying to convey.
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Post by gloriousbattle on Sept 7, 2011 9:05:39 GMT -6
I do agree that as a script of events that will happen, it won't really work. If the players are in the environment, the history is going to change from the sequence of events a historian is trying to convey. Quite so. Usually, when someone creates a semi-historical campaign, he bases it around some pivotal historical event. As an example, let's take the Battle of Adrianople, which is usually seen as the beginning of the final decline of the Roman Empire. I think this can be a fine place to start the campaign, but it should not be a fait accompli that the Romans lose. If all the game does is track history, then there is little that the players can really accomplish. If, OTOH, the outcome of the battle is left up to the players (they may be Romans or Visigoths, and they either win or lose), and future events can be influenced by them as well, things can really be fun. You still have all the glorious panorama of late Roman history as a backdrop, but destiny lies in the hands and hearts of the PCs.
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