I should commend to everyone's attention Chris Kutalik's on-going EPT efforts, detailed here and here. The "house rules" they have come up with so far are quite sensible, though the biggest area of real difference between EPT and later games for Tekumel is the magic system. I will have something up for that a little later in this thread.
“Some say that there is nothing in dreams but lies and fables; however, one may have dreams which are not in the least deceitful, but which later become clear.” The Romance of the Rose, Guillaume de Lorris & Jean de Meun (~A.D. 1230)
Re: You, too, CAN run Empire of the Petal Throne « Reply #94 on Sept 19, 2011, 2:40pm »
Quote - "I will have something up for that a little later in this thread." Awesome. Look forward to seeing how you suggest to handle this retro-inclusion. I'm thinking of allowing Universal, Generic, and Temple spells to be injected into the original ept as "Group 1" "Group 2" and "Group 3"selections under Section 500. I was considering then re-doing the Professional Skills listings of section 430 to have One From Group I, or One From Group I and One From Group II, then at higher circles / levels, allow One From Group III, representing temple spell learning. These offerings in addition to the existing static order of spell learning for those two classes; which I think is a tad too static for most players tastes. I digress, I look forward to reading what you have on the topic of using magic from the later rule sets in the original.
Quote - "I will have something up for that a little later in this thread." Awesome. Look forward to seeing how you suggest to handle this retro-inclusion. I'm thinking of allowing Universal, Generic, and Temple spells to be injected into the original ept as "Group 1" "Group 2" and "Group 3"selections under Section 500. I was considering then re-doing the Professional Skills listings of section 430 to have One From Group I, or One From Group I and One From Group II, then at higher circles / levels, allow One From Group III, representing temple spell learning. These offerings in addition to the existing static order of spell learning for those two classes; which I think is a tad too static for most players tastes. I digress, I look forward to reading what you have on the topic of using magic from the later rule sets in the original.
Very much along the lines of my own thinking. I had been thinking about keeping some of the non-magical skills that are often the province of priests and lay-priests. More to come shortly.
Re: You, too, CAN run Empire of the Petal Throne « Reply #99 on Sept 20, 2011, 8:06am »
One aspect of the later rules that I like a lot is the extra expenditure of psychic reservoir etc. to attain differing "levels" of effect for a given spell. Not many rpg's simulate this very well. I may allow this as well into my O:EPT games, but higher levels would drain the magic user or priest a certain number of rounds extra. In effect, they could cast the spell at the higher 'effect level' but are drained, lets say an extra 1d2 rounds for mid-level effect, and an extra 1d4 or 1d6 for highest level of effect. If they attempt any actions during that effected period, they'd be at an automatic (-4) mod to all rolls, or something similarly sinister (alliteration at its finest)
Re: You, too, CAN run Empire of the Petal Throne « Reply #101 on Sept 20, 2011, 11:39am »
A slight correction to my last post. I completely forgot that in S&G and Gardasiyal that you spent "Spell Purchase Points" to buy the higher levels of a given spell; not as 'expenditure' from daily allotted "pedhetl" (or mana for a more generic term) at a higher level of effect My mistake. It's been a while since I've read through the later rules. Oddly, I kind of like my misinterpretation that higher level of effect drains the caster more. In my west end games d6 conversion I had the levels of universal, generic, or temple spells only able to be cast by certain levels of skill in the associated magic skill. Long story short, you could only cast at a higher effect if you were more skilled in it.
Joined: Dec 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 138 Location: Leeds, UK Karma: 5
Re: You, too, CAN run Empire of the Petal Throne « Reply #102 on Sept 26, 2011, 1:41pm »
No, you had it right the first time - higher levels of spell effect cost more immediate mana points, as well as more Spell Purchase Points (a different sort of points) to learn when creating your character of going up a level.
If I was a fourth level caster and whizzed off a nice easy basic Alleviation (U2) to cure the poison in a nasty bug bite, it would cost me (according to the table on p3 of the Gardasiyal magic book) 30 points of 'oomph'.
Being a Dlamelish worshipper I could also go for a an improved Alleviation at level G2 to sober up from drink and drugs after showing my devotion to the goddess by going on a 24 hour bender, costing me 40 power points.
If I had expended enough spell purchase points during character generation I might even be able to cure Paralysis with the same spell (Level G4 effect) at 60 points.
If I was a Thumis worshipper and was caster level 10 +, had enough clout in the temple and loads of spare power points I might even try the ultimate Alleviation spells at T9 and cure radiation sickness for even more points or T10 and possibly cure Zu'ur addiction.
BUT pedhetl/mana costs go down as you rise in level. My Alleviation U2 poison cure costs me 40 pedhetl if I was a level 1-3 caster - a good chunk of the 200 or so I might have available - 30 at levels 4-6 and decreasing in three level steps until at 16th caster level I can pop them off for 3 pedhetl a go.
How you would translate all this to EPT is another matter - I'd like to see what Victor comes up with, but I have a few ideas of my own.
Joined: Dec 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 669 Karma: 35
Re: You, too, CAN run Empire of the Petal Throne « Reply #103 on Sept 27, 2011, 3:46pm »
There are a variety of ways to go about this. One important thing to remember is that "game" Tekumel is more "powered-up" than "real" Tekumel (insofar as Prof. Barker has written about it). So - depending on what kind of game you want - you can decide for yourself how to make the numbers come out.
Approaching this from the Empire of the Petal Throne side, there is Greentongue's excellent work simply aligning the EPT spell corpora with the various Temples, as shown here. (It should be noted, however, that the Group III Walls spell actually should be associated with several different Temples, not just Vimuhla.)
From the Swords & Glory/Gardasiyal side, the addition of Psychic Reservoir as a characteristic is more accurate, but it also immediately adds something to EPT that was not there. My suggestion is to not add it in, but to use Psychic Ability as a stand-in for it. While some might pine for the increased granularity of a power point pool, it's not absolutely warranted. After that, adding in Universal/Generic/Temple spells as the equivalent of Group I, II, and III is not too difficult. What's not as easy to reconcile are the Professional Skills for Priests and Magic-Users, which are mostly spells in disguise. On a first blush, however, the magic systems are adaptable to each other on a very rough basis.
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that higher level of effect drains the caster more. In my west end games d6 conversion I had the levels of universal, generic, or temple spells only able to be cast by certain levels of skill in the associated magic skill. Long story short, you could only cast at a higher effect if you were more skilled in it.