Joined: Nov 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 1,555 Location: Austin TX USA Karma: 152
Re: More thoughts on a BH "clone"... « Reply #15 on Aug 23, 2012, 12:10am »
Another thought occurs to me. Given my previous idea of BH combat and skills adapted from Traveller, how would one make this into a campaign?
It might be difficult to pull off an extended campaign that is historically accurate, so why not fudge a little bit? How about something like "The Wild Wild West" television series from the 1960's? Even if you didn't want to veer into the James Bond steampunk vibe that show had, you could still use the basic scenario.
"The player are government agents who are struggling to bring civilization into the wild west of the US of A."
The railroad would bring the players to different locales and give all players a chance to use their skills in scenarios tailored to them. Murder mysteries, legal battles, smugglers, invasions ... the sky is the limit.
Re: More thoughts on a BH "clone"... « Reply #16 on Aug 27, 2012, 8:25am »
Good thought. That has always been the hardest part of an Old West RPG, after the shoot out what do you do?
The more I think about it all one has to do is steal and tweak ideas from all the 50's and 60's TV shows and movies. People have made "campaigns" for this genre for decades. Plus let us not forget, REH found plenty of material to work with. Louis L'Amour has built a long writing career on this genre also.
One would just have to find a base to work off and then go from there. Bounty hunting, working for the courts, being the sheriff, working as a scout for pioneers. just a bit of work and off we go.
Re: More thoughts on a BH "clone"... « Reply #17 on Aug 29, 2012, 2:09pm »
Yep. As I noted in the "mapping out a Boot Hill adventure " thread in this forum you really have to look at a Boot Hill or any western adventure as a script rather then a sand box per say.
Problem is to hardcore grognardians such an idea is horrific to them. However this is precisely the right tack to take. Wandering around ala D&D, hopping from one monster hotel to the other would be a *ahem* train wreck in a western RPG as it's not setup the same way as D&D.
Re: More thoughts on a BH "clone"... « Reply #18 on Aug 30, 2012, 12:58pm »
Just read that thread. Kinda where I was thinking of going. True enough that BH is less of a sandbox and more of a jungle gym (with monitors). It need a lot more supervision than a D&D game.
The real question still is what if any skill system does it "need" to get the playground up and running. I think there is a lot of potential in it, just how much work do "we" want to put into it.
The real question still is what if any skill system does it "need" to get the playground up and running. I think there is a lot of potential in it, just how much work do "we" want to put into it.
Yeah that's why I wrote my own game. Even Gary realized that Boot Hill needed a Hell of a lot of spackle to patch the holes in the edifice. The game is a great one but a lot needs to be bolted on. I started out as an add-on to flesh out the holes and realized one would have to either A) rewrite a lot of it or B) bolt something else on. The way the attributes are structured don't really lend themselves to much outside of the minis rules they are. That's no knock against it, rather it is what it is.
In the end I went with B because it made more sense. In the home stretch of the alpha rules now.
Just read that thread. Kinda where I was thinking of going. True enough that BH is less of a sandbox and more of a jungle gym (with monitors). It need a lot more supervision than a D&D game.
Fair description of Boot Hill and western genre for RPGs in general. Westerns that are not weird west that is.
Re: More thoughts on a BH "clone"... « Reply #22 on Aug 31, 2012, 6:56am »
I'm interested in hearing about where you are going with this also. Again no trade secrets, just a general outline of your thoughts.
I spent more time thinking about sandbox games and what I will call jungle gym games ( only because I have not heard anything else used). Obviously D&D and Gamma World are 2 huge sandboxes. Boot Hill, and Top Secret are 2 jungle gym games.
Sand box games are well defined by the community already. The jungle gym games are what interest me right now. Couple questions about them. Are they worth trying to make into sandbox games? How many people really want them as sandbox? It seems to me you either love them or don't know anything about them. You can work with the system as is or you have a few shootouts, have fun and move on.
Well enough rambling for now, if I'm crazy and over thinking all this or can it, should it, be done?
Willmark, if you've posted about this I've either overlooked it or forgotten about it (I was in an accident recently and have had some memory issues).
Could you tell us a bit more about it? No need to give away trade secrets or anything, but I'm merely curious as your approach to the game.
My first exalt thanks!
Pretty soon it will be ready for people to nit pic. Right now I'm In the process of making sure the rules are consitent as its in part based on a traditional RPG I started in 1995! Add to the fact that I jump from section when i write and I'm sure it probably has more parts I'm less then clear on.
But anyways. D100 based, 12 stats in three groupings: fighting, mental, physical. Stats give a bonus, but no other modifiers like in D&D stats do: bb/lift gates, none of that). Skill based, also chances for innate talents. Anyone can try anything those that are skilled have greater chances of success. No classes. 15 minute character creation
Best part is it does use a deck of cards for many areas of the game including initiative and wounds. Hardly a new idea I realize but it does work well in my system. Best part is I've never played deadlands or aces and eights so I'm not familiar with their utilizations of the deck of their system other then in passing. The only system I've actually read that has card system is Savage Lands which is different from what I'm doing. is In fact the only old west RPGs I've read are Boot Hill and Western City.
Combat is LETHAL in keeping with its roots of being inspired by Boot Hill.
Re: More thoughts on a BH "clone"... « Reply #24 on Sept 2, 2012, 12:10am »
That sounds like a system I'd like to see. My Boot Hill 3rd game is entering its second year of play. In some cases, I do feel limited by the rules, so I'd love to see what you've got going here.
Re: More thoughts on a BH "clone"... « Reply #25 on Sept 2, 2012, 12:17am »
All this "sandbox" vs. "gymnasium" talk. I don't understand. My thoughts are that in a sandbox, play is driven by the actions of the characters/players, not by GM railroad or restrictions. If the players choose to explore an area or plot thread or npc, its their choice. I just extrapolate the things discovered to be in keeping with the themes, tropes and situations established in prior games.
All this "sandbox" vs. "gymnasium" talk. I don't understand. My thoughts are that in a sandbox, play is driven by the actions of the characters/players, not by GM railroad or restrictions. If the players choose to explore an area or plot thread or npc, its their choice. I just extrapolate the things discovered to be in keeping with the themes, tropes and situations established in prior games.
Am I missing something here?
No, I have just noticed a difference in some of the older games. Probably not earth shaking, just a note.
A sandbox game, as I see it, the GM sets up the basics and then the players explore. the Gm then guides the players based on what the players are doing or did.
What I call a "jungle gym" is where the GM need to set up more of the sandbox and then "guides" the players much more than a tradional RPG. not so much railroading as a firm hand on what to do. Games like Boot Hill and Top Secret come to my mind.
These games are still very good, I have a copy of each still and would love to ahve the time to run them. They tend to be more labor intensive than a regular D&D game. The inter-connections and consequenses of player actions have a much larger impact on the world itself. If left in a traditional sandbox play style things get confusing and tend to wander without a firm hand at the till.
Hope this clears up a confusion that I brought upon myself.
Re: More thoughts on a BH "clone"... « Reply #27 on Sept 3, 2012, 10:16pm »
I think it's a valid point.
What is a western themed RPG looking to emulate? A western movie (for the most part). With that the standard wander around and find adventure might work, but it doesn't feel like a western to me. It feels like D&D with different weapons, no armor and set in the Old West.
Can you wander the campaign map? Sure. And it might be a blast. My guess is the more I think about westerns the more there needs to be a structure or narrative. A Western is strong on character interaction, its what drives the story, the locations/vistas are not the primary mover.
Think about the difference in a western compared to a D&D sandbox: sure you can run it open, but I think its fairly likely a party can just wander as well.
Joined: Oct 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 350 Location: Seattle Karma: 31
Re: More thoughts on a BH "clone"... « Reply #28 on Sept 3, 2012, 11:24pm »
I have been thinking of how to make a western RPG campaign. One thing I have been thinking about regarding this BH clone discussion is that some of the early modules were very guided. The giant series is what I am thinking of. Something like that could work for a western RPG I think. Instead of a sandbox, have a couple of "boss monsters" and a bunch of clues/ red herrings/ mcguffins around. Try to achieve a few episodes of play rather than an extended campaign. \
Re: More thoughts on a BH "clone"... « Reply #29 on Sept 4, 2012, 10:03am »
Episodic is probably the best word that describes a western. The best westerns (no pun intended) have a flow to them. I very much like sandbox play but in a western there has to be a bit more guidance. I think Gang Busters is similar but Metamorphsis Alpha and Gamma World are more akin to D&D.
I've been reviewing the Boot Hill modules reflect writers not sure how to treat the genre. I'm not the only one who's seen this.
I think a western sandbox is possible depending on the players but that is true of almost any RPG.
Jmmcann- I think you would be fine with that because the G series isn't really a sandbox, but neither is it a railroad, in a way it reads like a somewhat, open ended script.
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